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  • 0. Shaman Q&A [From US]   09/06/2009 22:04:14 PDT
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Sorry if already been posted, but heres link to thread on US forums:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=17730193271&sid=1

Looks promising to say the least. But I'll make my mind up when i see the patch notes. New stormstrike icon anyone?

[ Post edited by Tiffan ]


And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits in Thy mercy"
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  • Bronze Dragonflight
  • 1. Re: Shaman Q&A [From US]   09/06/2009 22:49:14 PDT
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I'm going to hijack this thread to put my personal translations and comments about the Shaman Q&A results here (wall of text incoming but can't be avoided since comments are in bold inbetween) :

Q. Where do shamans fit into the larger scope of things currently and where do you see them going from this point forward?

A. The shaman class has a pretty dynamic history. In classic World of Warcraft there was a period where everyone viewed shamans as overpowered. I remember one of my earliest experiences in the Barrens trying to group with a shaman to do a group quest. But he just told me was an overpowered shaman (Frost Shock!) and didn’t need the help.

In vanilla World of Warcraft, shamans at the end-game were healers. Period. By The Burning Crusade, we decided that all three of their trees should have viable roles in the end-game. We also decided that hybrid classes (those that can fill more than one role, such as damage and healing) should do less damage than the classes that could only fill the damage role. This philosophy generally worked, in some cases too well, because Sunwell raids were infamous for stacking lots of shamans. (that was for Heroism only yes, which has been nerfed to the ground individually already)

In Lich King, a primary goal for raiding was to give players far more flexibility in which classes they brought and try to de-emphasize “raid stacking” as much as possible. This meant we needed to share the unique, mandatory buffs among more classes and specs so that, for example, a raid wasn’t gimped if they happened to lack a +spellpower or +crit buff. However, we didn’t want say shamans to no longer be attractive for raiding so we brought up their damage a lot. It might still not be as high as rogues or warlocks, but it’s close, and if you have the right gear and really know how to play, you can even beat those classes on some bosses. (We gave you flat buffs so just learn to play and stop whining) No raid worth its salt would turn down an Enhancement, Elemental or Restoration shaman for fear of bringing down the raid. (Oh really? I would like to see some evidence of that)(Wait, did Blizzard just call every raid leader a failure if they prefer to bring in another class to the raid?

In PvP, especially Arenas, shamans have never really been a powerhouse class and we view this as a problem. Shamans have always had a place in the 5 vs. 5 bracket, where their buffs are most meaningful spread out among multiple characters. Elemental has sometimes had a niche as the “kill the wounded guy” spec. Currently, however, much of the PvP community is very focused on the 2 vs. 2 bracket, where teams that pack a lot of abilities into a single class tend to dominate. This is something we need to improve for the shaman class.

Shamans have three really distinct roles. Enhancement is melee DPS. Elemental is ranged DPS. Restoration is healing. Once upon a time there was a potential tanking role for shamans as well, but we have pretty much phased that out.

Q. What is it that makes them unique compared to all other classes?

A. Totems, totems, totems!

Okay, that’s the obvious answer, but it goes deeper than that. The weapon enchants are an unusual part of the shaman class, as are mechanics like the shield spells (Earth Shield, Lightning Shield) and Frost Shock. Shaman buffs and utility spells are quite powerful (WERE powerful until every other class got a more mobile and often better version) , including the infamous Heroism / Bloodlust, but also their self-rez ability, Reincarnation. (Yes,what was the cooldown on it again?) As envisioned from the start, shamans were also the “offensive” hybrid. Things have inevitably blurred a bit since then, but they are still a counterpart and complement to paladins – paladins have cleanse, shamans have purge; paladins will let an ally move freely to escape or catch an opponent, shamans will snare an enemy to let their ally escape or catch him or her; paladins will make sure their allies’ casts aren’t interrupted, shamans will interrupt enemy casts; and so forth.

Don’t underestimate the gear either. Shamans are only one of two mail-using classes in the game, and the only non-plate wearer that can use shields. Shaman shields provide a lot of defense and stats for the Restoration and Elemental shaman.

One of the other unusual things about the class is their degree of hybridization. An Elemental shaman can easily throw out heals if a group needs a little extra help. (preemptive excuse on why there is so much MP5 on our Elemental gear) A druid, by contrast, would need to shift forms first, possibly giving up other abilities to do so.

Q. Are there plans to look at totems in general, the way they are managed, their uses, and their benefits in the future?

A. Absolutely. One of the features we have been working on is a way for shamans to drop all four totems at once (on one global cooldown). This will hopefully make the totems more attractive while soloing and will let the shaman in a group environment quickly get his or her totems down again if the group has to move or they get destroyed. We’d like to get this feature in soon, but we want to make sure the user-interface works well and feels integrated to the rest of the game, so we can’t yet announce a date. And of course, this is still in the planning stage, and so subject to change. (basically we get a 3 second cooldown reduction when we can drop a regular batch of totems, does nothing to solve mobility really)

In PvP, we want to make sure we end the use of “totem stomping macros” where a pet class essentially programs their pet to automatically kill any totem they see. It’s perfectly acceptable for pets to kill totems, but the player should at least have to make a decision and spend some of their attention to do so.

We want to look at the range of the buff totems and make sure you don’t regularly get out of range on say large boss fights. (See, this would solve mobility)

Finally, as a small quality-of-life improvement, we are going to let low-level shamans trade in the four elemental totems that clutter their bags for a single totem they can equip in their totem slot. Since the four “clutter”; totems can’t be destroyed or sold, currently there is no way to get rid of them. This change will essentially give shamans their four bag slots back. (I'm guessing this will be the most useful shaman change in 3.2, but that's just my personal jaded view)

Q. And, what are the possible impacts of considering changes to a system like this?

A. Sometimes you will see the community suggest ideas that basically write totems out of the game. That’s not what we want. A shaman player should care about totems and use them often.
Obviously being able to drop four totems on one global cooldown is a pretty decent buff to the class as a whole, which will require some balance attention. (Excuse me? You intend to finally fix our ancient totem mechanic so that they WORK, but we're getting nerfed to compensate?!)

We have talked a few times about improving the health of individual totems, but if we did, we don’t want to do it by much. One of our Restoration shamans said he still wanted to be able to whack down enemy totems with his healing mace at the end of the day. The balance for totems being able to cause damage or other effects while the shaman also does is the fact that they can’t move and are relatively fragile. (Yes except that other classes do the same or better without that limitation)

One longer-term change we are considering is removing the buff totems (replacing them with normal spells) and making all of the totems do something more active, like the current damage or healing totems. We’ve even discussed letting shamans carry a totem on their back (the tauren do it already) but that may be too far out there. (We know our other answers are not very useful but here's a carrot on a stick so you don't quit right away)

Q. Is there any plan to look at the way totems are being used and either update little-used totems or consolidate totems that don’t seem to be of a particularly great strategic value individually?

A. There are still some totems that just aren’t cutting it anymore, and we want to continue to consolidate those so that shamans don’t have any totems that they just never, ever use. Sentry Totem is a possible candidate for the chopping block. It’s hard to really carve off unique niches for Magma Totem and Fire Nova Totem, so those may get merged. Stoneskin is not a terribly exciting totem, so maybe there is a way to just tack that benefit onto another Earth totem. Finally, we are exploring the possibility of the elementals coming out of any Fire or Earth totem respectively rather than to have to drop a new totem just for their temporary benefit. (I admit, this is a some good news)

We combined or cut some totems for Lich King, and you should expect another round of that at some point in the future. As always, we’re unsure of how many of these changes we will get in for the 3.2 patch. We’re trying to keep the list of class changes down compared to 3.1, where some players felt whiplash from so many frequent and sometimes substantial changes to their class. (Ummm sorry, can you repeat that? It sounded like you're saying that because other classes got too many changes and shamans barely any in 3.1, you're going to prevent the reverse from happening in 3.2)

[ Post edited by Higurashi ]

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  • Bronze Dragonflight
  • 2. Re: Shaman Q&A [From US]   09/06/2009 22:50:36 PDT
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Q. In addition, many valued enhancement totem relics are only available via random drops, which has been voiced as something that we’ve wanted to avoid in the past. Are there any plans to change this?

A. The “relics” (the items that fill the ranged weapon slot) are always tricky to hand out, since they can only be used by one class, and are often attractive to only one spec. We have typically put them on badge vendors, and that might be the way to go with them in the future. On the other hand, several “best in slot” items for every character are subject to the inherent randomness of boss loot drops. Typically these upgrades are attractive but not so mandatory that you can’t do your job without them.

Community Team: Shamans currently have the lowest base health of any class, and this often leads to concern over their survivability.

Q. Is there any reason that they start this way or is there any future change in store to address this disparity between their base health and that of other classes?

A. This is one of those weird legacies that has been in the game forever. Nobody currently working on classes can remember why that decision was initially made, so we plan to revert it for 3.2. (Been in there forever and yet only now is action being taken...)

Q. When itemizing for the shaman class, what are the aspects that are looked at, and are there plans to make additional improvements to the way itemization is done for the class or for specific talent specs?

A. One of the problems we have with dropping one-handed weapons is the overlap. If we drop axes, rogues can’t use them. If we drop swords, shamans can’t use them. If we drop fists, death knights can’t use them. We are looking at changing one of these restrictions in 3.2, though it likely won’t be for shamans to use swords. (So... one of these classes will get a buff but it won't be shamans?)

It is our basic assumption that Enhancement shamans dual-wield and Restoration and Elemental shamans go for a one-handed weapon and shield. While we don’t prohibit players from playing with other types of gear, they may not find their damage or healing output to be as high. At this point in time, we aren’t trying to support a two-handed DPS build. That would require a pretty extensive reworking of the tree, and we also want to make sure some class besides rogues are using one-handed weapons. (Right, those are called Deathknights and Hunters. The other classes who can go dual wield or 2-handed easily so I completely fail to see the reasoning behind this other than 'Too much work, can't be arsed')
We got a lot of questions on specific itemization, especially in the new Ulduar tier. The designers do feel like we’ve let the value of various stats get too far apart for the classes as a whole. When some characters want armor penetration and some don’t yet they are supposed to share basically the same gear, it makes the randomness of loot drops even more frustrating. We just need to get Enhancement to where they feel like armor penetration is as valuable as other melee stats. (MP5 for Elemental totally ignored here so it must be working as intended)

We’re also in the process of taking a hard look at all the stats in the game. Something that gets brought up in our meetings a lot is that haste and crit are relatively straight forward stats and most players have a reasonable intuition about what boosting those stats will do. When you start to throw something like armor penetration into the mix, it’s hard to estimate exactly what that will do for your character. We’re not sure armor penetration is a rousing success as an interesting stat (though it can be quite good for some characters).

Q. What is the expectation for how shamans choose the gear they use?

A. Players sometimes have the expectation that everything that drops that they can use should be an upgrade for them. (Oh you're blaming us now? All other classes will get gear that is similar in build to naxx gear with a bit more stats, except Elemental Shamans and you know it) This isn’t strictly speaking the developer view though. We want gear to be a little bit of a puzzle where you have to analyze if that piece is really an upgrade or not and how it fits with your other stats. (Ok that's easy enough for Elemental Shamans in Ulduar : It's not an upgrade and it doesn't fit) Remember also that much of the normal versions of Ulduar is itemized at the same level as Kel’Thuzad and Malygos.

There are some pieces that are just inferior to what they should be and we are getting those updated over time. As I mentioned above, we also want to improve the situations where some stats are so superior for your spec compared to other stats that pieces with the latter on them are just perceived as junk.

While we have a lot of bosses in Ulduar, those bosses also drop an awful lot of loot. Having loot drop that is attractive to more than one spec is paramount in making the bosses feel rewarding enough. Otherwise boss loot tables are just too large and your chance of getting what you want is low. (The huge loot table works for Emalon who is easy to reach, but not Algalon.) We have to avoid the situation where say the Elemental shaman only wants one set of shoulders in the whole instance and those shoulders are unattractive to everyone else in the raid. This is why we often say that we need to fix these problems on the class side, not the item side. (Great, so where is the fix then because right now Elemental Shamans don't want any non-tier items and even those are pretty bad)

This is a situation where the distinction among the shaman specs can hurt them a little. Restoration and Elemental shamans both basically want caster gear, but the healer wants regen and the nuker has no use for it. This means if there is mana regen on mail, it is pretty much only useful for a Restoration shaman. (Healing plate presents the same problem for paladins.) We don’t have a great solution for this problem yet other than just dropping three kinds of mail. (You drop 3 kinds of paladin plate and have done so for a long long time already in massive amounts so what is the problem then?)

Q. Where do we feel the role of the shaman is in raids now and where do we see that going in the future?

A. We want all three shaman specs to feel like they can contribute to raids, and to be honest, we think they’re in a pretty good spot certainly relative to some classes that have specs that are perceived as much more viable than other specs. Enhancement can do great melee damage. After the recent Lightning Overload change, we think Elemental can do competitive ranged damage. (The 50+ pages in the various Shaman Q&A thread are all wrong, Shamans are fine, move along) I know there is some concern about Restoration shamans losing their healing niche of area damage. We think that perception might exist in Ulduar just because recent talents, glyphs, and set bonuses have all propped up things like Lesser Healing Wave over Chain Heal. Chain Heal is still quite useful in some situations and with different gear in the next couple of tiers, we expect to see more shamans going back to it. We don’t want to see them return to just using Chain Heal as was the case in much of Burning Crusade. We do think Restoration shamans are at the risk of running out of mana perhaps more than any other healer right now, and in fact the seemingly unlimited mana in some healers is what leads to Chain Heal getting stomped on by other big heals. This is a problem we plan on addressing. (Read: Nerfing mana regen on other classes)

Q. Is the change in how shamans are used situational only as we move forward into the next encounters, or is this a shift in philosophy as to the role of the shaman in raids?

A. It isn’t a philosophy shift. We want Restoration shamans to be a strong group healer with the option of focusing on a single target with Lesser Healing Wave as needed. Restoration shamans have two distinct healing styles now that they can shift between, and we want to preserve that. We don’t want to return to the Sunwell era, where 95% of healing came from Chain Heal. It’s just a boring play style. (And yes, paladins, we hear you.) We suspect that with a new totem or set bonus that propped up Chain Heal a little more, you’d see it getting a lot more use. We’re cool with that. It’s fun when you upgrade your gear from tier to tier and it actually pushes you into a slightly different play style.

Elemental shamans have had a couple of opportunities to shine in Ulduar -- blowing up constructs on Ignis is one example. (Yes, that was the highlight of Ulduar I'm sure, except that Warlocks seem to be preferred for it) We try to make sure the encounters are diverse enough that the same classes aren’t always in the spotlight on every encounter, but we also don’t want to constrain our encounter designers’ creativity too much. Elemental may suffer from so many fights in Ulduar requiring movement. Also, while we have given Elemental strong AoE in the form of the Magma Totem, some players feel like this comes at too high a cost to their buffs and mobility, so this is something we’ll look at.

We’re pretty happy with Enhancement shamans in raids, though we want to continue to analyze whether their DPS is where it should be and if their buffs are comparable to other classes that can bring the same benefit.

We do hope we’ve finally settled the issue of which weapon enchantments shamans should use with the now normalized Flametongue.

The rest was about pvp so not of any interest apart from a bit about not buffing totems in pvp because then Hunters and Warlocks would be at the bottom instead of Shamans... wtf?

[ Post edited by Higurashi ]

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  • 3. Re: Shaman Q&A [From US]   10/06/2009 00:29:44 PDT
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Higurashi you are one of the worst whiners I've ever seen...

If you dislike a class' mechanics so much that you wished they worked totally differently, it's possible you are playing the wrong class. :)
-Ghostcrawler

And he's right!
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  • 4. Re: Shaman Q&A [From US]   10/06/2009 00:32:42 PDT
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So , Blizzard is telling us that Chain heal is fine , and we need to wait for other instances and tiers so that we can be competitive again?

Well it does not work this way, unless you really have a friendly guild master or raid leader. At the moment why bring a healing shammy when you could just take a priest or drood to do the job of raid healing, or bring a discipline priest so he can MT heal and keep the armor buff on the tank? there is no answer to this so in a perfect setup you are not going to take a spot , and that means no gear, no gear means that on next instance you release other ppl will have the gear to run it without dragging the raid down.

Ulduar is full of burst dmg on both tanks and raid members, and how can i compete in raid healing when i do 7k burst healing at max , with holy priests that do well over 12k burst healing. I have a priest alt ( because blizzard FORCED me to level one ) and it performs eons above the shammy in any role ( and well with Dual spec the crap with flexibility is well ..... just crap, i switch from disc to holy from an encounter to other ).

Want me to go further and pair that holy priest with a drood in raid healing and see how they complete each other ?

The only way i can heal raid is to have no holy priest in the raid, if i do have that i am forced to just snipe heal ppl, and even then other classes can do the job better (not to mention that by sniping heals i overwrite alot of hots).

Anyway, the single buff that you need to make is CH, because trust me , tidal haves is a very good talent that would make the CH+ LHW very attractive if CH was attractive. Ch need the following changes : drop the healing penalty to 25% on each jump, put another jump in the loop and increase the range of jumps to 12-14 yd all of this in the Imp CH talent(maybe even put a 3-4 second cd on it with lowered cast time in the talent or even instant).

And with the gear problem -
Enhancement - what mail class wants ArP ? enhancement - no; survival - not that much; MM - NO; O yeah BM hunters that well are very hard to find these days
Resto and Elemental- make us less dependent on MP5, move the Unreleting storm in resto tiers and maybe make an elemental tier that convert mp5 to sp/hit/haste/crit.

I find it very funny how holy palas are complaining that mp5 exists on plate healing gear and yet Blizz does nothing against that ? why not make our shield a 5 min buff with unlimited charges ( or maybe 32 ) and change the imp water shield to 100% on crit for HW, LHW and riptide and 50% on CH crit (but only for the first jump) ?

[ Post edited by Fanrir ]

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  • 5. Re: Shaman Q&A [From US]   10/06/2009 00:37:05 PDT
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Q u o t e:
Higurashi you are one of the worst whiners I've ever seen...

It may be true, but this Q&A session is so ridicolous that i hoped it was a bad joke.

If you look a shaman Q&A of two years ago you'll find more or less the sameissues described, the same fixing promises and we all know how it ended and will end this time also.

Those Q&A could have been written 3 months ago.

TLDR version of this Q&A

Q: Why do this class suck so much?
A: We don't know but we'll surely do something about it in the future

The same answer we are getting from ages

Cla.

Position in Queue: +∞
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  • Bronze Dragonflight
  • 6. Re: Shaman Q&A [From US]   10/06/2009 00:37:22 PDT
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Q u o t e:
Higurashi you are one of the worst whiners I've ever seen...


Psst, you should post on your lvl 1 metaphorical troll, not your main racial troll
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  • Neptulon
  • 7. Re: Shaman Q&A [From US]   10/06/2009 00:45:10 PDT
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The issues he addresses are mainly the correct ones , our low base health , our mana issues , our chain heal (i suspect they will nerf other classes and not buff us on that) ,our totems .. and PVP concerns ..

Still skips around things and provides ambiguous responses ,

NO TIME FRAME THOUGH - aaaarrrrghhhhhh /pulls hair out.,

Eeek the expansion cometh ! And now im the red headed step child with a mohawk .. so watch it punk !
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  • 8. Re: Shaman Q&A [From US]   10/06/2009 00:46:02 PDT
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http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=9520914758&sid=1

Please consolidate posts about this subject in the thread linked above.

Locking this.

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