since cats have loads of copied abiliet, why not let SR work the same as hunger for blood?

i don't know if that's been brought up before in this topic, but this would be a good help :)

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Q u o t e:

Skilled players will always be better at managing rotations as well as cooldowns, and they will always have a greater sense of their surroundings that makes them better at adapting to different situations,

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Please maintain this as much as possible. Last night I came to enjoy Kologarn simply because to do “decent” (read: to get in the top 10 lol) dps a feral needs to adapt. Adapting your rotation (and idol/gear) for certain encounters to perform better is something that should be kept intact and not “simplified” for those less skilled (read: less effort) by for example removing the shred positional requirement in PvE.

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Q u o t e:

it will only be a minor nerf.

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I guess the message is clear.
Poorly skilled rogue tears win the day? Rogues outperform all classes in the game at this moment.
How much easier can you make it for a class to top the meters and compete in raids?
- Nerfing all their competition that comes close
- Removing their positional requirements for attacks (Mutilate)
- Increasing their dps
- Increasing their utility (TotT)
To a class that was perfectly fine to begin with >.>

If you find feral druids strong (for god knows why), then you should take a look at ArP mechanics.
Most classes don’t bother with ArP stacking but ferals druids tend to do so (cause we already have strong other stats) and are doing competitive DPS with it.

Nobody in my guild ever bothered with ArP. Rogues, warriors, DKs, Hunters…nobody. Only me.
Recently a hunter and warrior I know also started stacking ArP, and their dps pretty much increased a lot and they are pulling of impressive numbers (6k+ on some encounters).
You could give some more ArP through gear/talents/glyphs to physical classes that need more dps to be competitive (Hunters, Warriors, Enh. Shamans?) and might consider stacking ArP.

Problem would be that casters might fall behind on Physical Damage dealing classes but so far casters seem to be doing fine in PvE. Especially since any movement reduces melee dps (almost every fight) and there are a lot of caster beneficial fights in Ulduar (General/Hodir).

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Q u o t e:


What game are you playing? Feral cats are dishing out WAY too much damage. 6-7K DPS isn't too high?!
They are doing more damage than pure classes on single target bosses. Wow really?

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Which fight?

Cauze our mage did 17k dps last night. So via your logic of thinking mages should get nerfed badly.

Edit:

I lied....

It was 18k:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zTJKg4TPOuhUAzge/sum/damageDone/?s=10587&e=10829

This fight is designed for ferals and tbh, it is pretty competative:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/zTJKg4TPOuhUAzge/sum/damageDone/?s=3094&e=3660

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Q u o t e:


You will have to remember that boss encounters are quite different from each other, especially in regards to Ulduar bosses, so depending on which boss you look at, the list of whose DPS is highest will change. I think many players don't keep this in mind when they compare their damage output with of other classes, which often leads them to ignore the boss encounters where they perform well, and instead only focus on the bosses where they get outdamage by other classes.

Feral Cats do quite a lot of damage on some bosses, and not so much on others.

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Yes boss encounters are indeed different. However, why should it ever be ok for a hybrid to outdps a pure?
It doesn't make sense.

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Q u o t e:


... However, why should it ever be ok for a hybrid to outdps a pure?
It doesn't make sense.

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if the hybrid is more complex than your "pure" ? simply, if the personn is more skill than the other one ?

Spamm 1 ( fireball ) and sometimes 2 ( ignite ) ok that was easy, sorry.

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Q u o t e:


Yes boss encounters are indeed different. However, why should it ever be ok for a hybrid to outdps a pure?
It doesn't make sense.

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Because we play in WotLK now, not TBC.

If you want pure classes to be on top on every single encounter of the game simply because they are a “pure class” then you are a really sad spoiled selfish person.

All DPSers (pure or hybrid) should be able to have a shot to be on top of the dps charts (I’ve also seen Paladins/Warriors on top btw on Kologarn/Yogg respectively, why don’t you complain about these?).
Seeing the diversity and complexity of encounters it is only natural that even hybrids can be topping a dps meter. It is impossible to “set” a certain fixed ranking of dps classes.

You can nerf ferals so they won’t top X002 sure, but most likely because of such a nerf they can’t outdps tanks on fights like Freya.

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Q u o t e:


You will have to remember that boss encounters are quite different from each other, especially in regards to Ulduar bosses, so depending on which boss you look at, the list of whose DPS is highest will change. I think many players don't keep this in mind when they compare their damage output with of other classes, which often leads them to ignore the boss encounters where they perform well, and instead only focus on the bosses where they get outdamage by other classes.

Feral Cats do quite a lot of damage on some bosses, and not so much on others.

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Cool, please tell me which fight fury warriors are near the top then. Fury is a hybrid specc that is said to be more or less fine as it is. Acceptable since warriors are a hybrid class imo, but then why shouldn't other hybrids be in line with fury dps?

This is in my opinion especially relevant when compared to feral druids, seeing as how they bring buffs that don't stack with fury warriors.

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Q u o t e:


Yes boss encounters are indeed different. However, why should it ever be ok for a hybrid to outdps a pure?
It doesn't make sense.

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Right Blizzard you heard the man!

- No more diverse fights with unique mechanics; all fights has to give the "pure dps" (what a horrible relic of a horrible past) an artificial edge that enables them to beat more skilled "hybrids".

- Make player skills irrelevant! Obviously having rolled a "pure dps" class equals a higher skill level and should be rewarded as such!

.... Thanks for clarifying. Oh wait.

Are we all really so degenerate, primitive and idiotic that we still cling to old labels and try to pigeonhole classes and - god forbid - unique individuals, namely the players to fit into these labels?

Cat dps is not too high currently. I repeat, not too high currently. We can reach some great numbers provided we get TotT and Hysteria. Other classes can get this too, but currently - and ArP is mainly the culprit here - we gain alot more from it.

Cats are fine. Alot of pure class players who believe they deserve to be spoonfed superiority isn't. Oh, and if we have to talk about a class that's crazy, take a look at DK's who have received 239 iLevel weapons.

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Q u o t e:



Cool, please tell me which fight fury warriors are near the top then. Fury is a hybrid specc that is said to be more or less fine as it is. Acceptable since warriors are a hybrid class imo, but then why shouldn't other hybrids be in line with fury dps?

This is in my opinion especially relevant when compared to feral druids, seeing as how they bring buffs that don't stack with fury warriors.

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Blizzard has said they plan on adjusting warriors and buff them a bit. I don't think anybody feels warriors are universally fine for dps currently, except on a select few fights. Or well... making Arms rotation more intuitive might work better. I've seen one arms warrior universally doing great on all fights, but his auto-swings were consistently sub-9%. Most Arms warriors I'm looking at daily sit around 15-20%.

Well, actually fury is fine... it just requires dual-Voldrethar and BiS gear.

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Q u o t e:

Cool, please tell me which fight fury warriors are near the top then. Fury is a hybrid specc that is said to be more or less fine as it is. Acceptable since warriors are a hybrid class imo, but then why shouldn't fury dps be brought more in line with other hybrid dps specs?

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Fixed...

Don't use this thread for warrior QQ...really is not the place >.>

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Q u o t e:


Blizzard has said they plan on adjusting warriors and buff them a bit. I don't think anybody feels warriors are universally fine for dps currently, except on a select few fights. Or well... making Arms rotation more intuitive might work better. I've seen one arms warrior universally doing great on all fights, but his auto-swings were consistently sub-9%. Most Arms warriors I'm looking at daily sit around 15-20%.

Well, actually fury is fine... it just requires dual-Voldrethar and BiS gear.

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I was under the impression (and from reading forums it seems most warriors think the same) that the promised fury buffs were the ones we got last patch (BT rage and cd change).

Again, I'm pretty fine with pure being above hybrid dps, what I don't get is why warriors are supposedly fine, and druids are also fine when druids outdps warriors by far in almost every setting and they share some similaritys (crit buff, ability to panic-offtank etc).

Especially in a 10 man setting where a fury warrior can never reach ilvl 239 and BiS gear.
What would be the reason to ever bring a warrior instead of a cat for a 10 man raid when they have superior dps (and individual dps is arguably even more important in 10 than in 25), they have a superior crit-buff (heals on top of crit) and also bring innervate/CR/motw against warriors ap shout/sunder/demo shout(which noone cares about) all of which can be supplied by a warrior tank.



This is not warrior qq, I'm just asking if ferals really have the right to qq? As a raid leader I'd take a feral over a fury warrior any day, and those two classes are the closest to eachother, thats why I'm comparing them.

I really don't see the point of arguing about feral dps being too high, its a fact that blizzard want pure dps to be higher than hybrid, warriors are mostly fine with it, why can't feral accept that they need a nerf to be brought in line with the other hybrids? Don't worry, you will still bring kickass utility to any raid. You wont lose your spot just because your dps is brought in line with the rest of us.

After all, your dps IS about you feeling useful to your raid and contributing, not about personal epeen, right?

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Q u o t e:



Cool, please tell me which fight fury warriors are near the top then. Fury is a hybrid specc that is said to be more or less fine as it is. Acceptable since warriors are a hybrid class imo, but then why shouldn't other hybrids be in line with fury dps?

This is in my opinion especially relevant when compared to feral druids, seeing as how they bring buffs that don't stack with fury warriors.

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Was posted before but:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/7/0/3
According to this, fury doing good on Mimiron (top even), they are doing good on Thorim, Assembly of Iron, Ignis, Emalon. DK top several meters as hybrid, elemental shamans doing pretty well on some encounters. Feral isn't on top on any encounter. Even XT-002.

In conclusion, being very hard spec to show it's best performance, i think feral is where it should be.

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Q u o t e:


You will have to remember that boss encounters are quite different from each other, especially in regards to Ulduar bosses, so depending on which boss you look at, the list of whose DPS is highest will change. I think many players don't keep this in mind when they compare their damage output with of other classes, which often leads them to ignore the boss encounters where they perform well, and instead only focus on the bosses where they get outdamage by other classes.

Feral Cats do quite a lot of damage on some bosses, and not so much on others.

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This may be the reason why some get the impression that ferals are OP. It's enough to outperform most DD classes at a few fights to make them feel underpowered, and they forget that in general they are higher on the list.

This is kind of a new thing for ferals that we can perform well and that it actually needs some extra effort to achieve, it inspires us to delve deeper into the secrets of maxing out our dps, while other players may be discouraged by losing their status that they have by default.

I get outdamaged quite often when the others actually focus and try to put as much effort as I always do, it must not be a coincidence. (Well there are fights where we have an unbeatable advantage, but how many of these bosses are like that in Ulduar? XT is not everything.)

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Q u o t e:

those two classes are the closest to eachother, thats why I'm comparing them.

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Actually no.

Warriors excel in multi target damage (Yogg/Freya/Kologarn) and druids excel in single target damage (Ignis/X002). Funny enough warriors suck at single target damage (Ignis/X002) and druids suck at multi target damage (Yogg/Freya/Kologarn)

I kinda fail to see why you would compare these two classes that excel in dps on different mechanics. Especially considering warriors are a rage based class and druids are energy based. These mechanics alone favor or disfavor a class in certain encounters.

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Q u o t e:

I really don't see the point of arguing about feral dps being too high

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Then why the hell are you here? To QQ.
Or did you misread the topic title?

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Q u o t e:

why can't feral accept that they need a nerf to be brought in line with the other hybrids?

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We are below other hybrids on other encounters in Ulduar (Yogg/Freya/Kologarn). Maybe we should get a buff to be brought in line with other hybrids?

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Q u o t e:

Don't worry, you will still bring kickass utility to any raid. You wont lose your spot just because your dps is brought in line with the rest of us.

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Haha…right…..our utility is so gamebreaking that we had first pick in TBC. Feral utility is useless and overrated. TBC proved that.

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Q u o t e:
When we own in pvp we get nerfs
When we suck in pvp we get "spec resto, lol"
When we own in pve we get nerfs
When we suck in pve we get forced to tank.

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Q u o t e:

I really don't see the point of arguing about feral dps being too high, its a fact that blizzard want pure dps to be higher than hybrid, warriors are mostly fine with it, why can't feral accept that they need a nerf to be brought in line with the other hybrids? Don't worry, you will still bring kickass utility to any raid. You wont lose your spot just because your dps is brought in line with the rest of us.

After all, your dps IS about you feeling useful to your raid and contributing, not about personal epeen, right?

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Then lets nerf dk dps to fury level, after all they are closer to a warrior than feral and bring alot more utility than feral.

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Q u o t e:
i really wish they'd just leave kitty dps alone. It's fine where it is. It is exactly where it should be. Demanding to play, almost impossible to keep up except with an extraodrindary amount of skill.

Sure it would be high on some straight forward fights, but it won't be on others. Hunters, mages, warlocks and rogues can all just tip it if they play to their max. Tbh.. kitty dps is where all hybrid dps should be.

Should be involved and powerful, with rogue/hunter just edging it, but only just and only if you are skilled

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Agree completely.

I can't understand why every class has to cater to casuals/idiots/tards/amputees. Why can't it be like hardmodes? Some people can play the hardmodes and play competitively and enjoy the challenge, while others can get free loot and stand in void zones.

Couldn't we have a few classes/specs which are complex and challenging, and a few which are easy and faceroll? Something for everyone, and if you don't like it - reroll.