Found this at US forums, seems some ppl is having issues with dps after 3.1, like i do... :<

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16473619486&sid=1&pageNo=1


-Eagle

Pretty useless thread judging by the first two pages. One person is blaming it on the CL nerf (which never happened), some are blaming LvB, some are blaming LB, and some dual-specc.

I think I saw about two useful posts in the whole first two pages. The rest is just bumps, and "me too".

I have tested LB and LvB at a target dummy myself and found no problem. In my first two Ulduar runs there was also no problem, and my max crits matched up almost exactly to what I got in Naxx the week before 3.1

But...

Recently in Ulduar I have started to see some very odd and very low LvB crits of under 9.5k. Only problem was, on the same fight I got a crit of 13.7k, which was right around my maximum.

So I am happy to admit something may now be wrong....

But...

The problem as much as anything is all these people going on about "i lose 1k DPS, halpz" really adds nothing to the debate. What we need is people running tests, changing speccs and glyphs, getting some decent data. That might sound boring, but Blizzard have admitted they can't find a bug, so if you are so sure there is one, go pin it down.

It's because of spell power lost due to Flametongue normalization.
No need to panic.

the coefffiecient of spellpower that flametongue weapon gains now scales with weapon speed, before it was just base dmg which scaled, this has nothing to do with the amount of sp flametongue passively gives (as in, the useful bit of the enchant for elemental) but is rather a nerf to balance out using very fast weapons vs. slow as enhancement.

I'm elemental and I'm getting messages on the screen (generated by blizz) saying Maelstrom proced.

At first it confused me and I searched elemental tree wording for maelstrom, nothing, then looked at the enhancement spec and there it was.

Someone tell me whats happening.

I may have been hacking away with the dagger at the time - trying to up my skill when I ran our of mana

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My DPS is bad though. Only seem to do 1.7k on bosses.

14.37% hit and I believe 3% from talent making over 17%.

SP about 2110 with frost wyrm and flametongue

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Q u o t e:
I'm elemental and I'm getting messages on the screen (generated by blizz) saying Maelstrom proced.

At first it confused me and I searched elemental tree wording for maelstrom, nothing, then looked at the enhancement spec and there it was.

Someone tell me whats happening.

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Yeah i get that

Mmootimus, what damage should i be doing with Lightning bolt (max crit) and Lava burst (max crit)

assuming i have 2410 Spell power (all talents ofc)

or tell me how to figure it out ^^

Its just a combination of factors like not being used to the fights yet, moving around really eats our dps, elemental mastery nerf and other classes got buffs so they are above us now.

I see a drop in my dps in raids too but on dummies I actually do more dps than before 3.1 (not much around 50-100dps) coz of the ToW glyph.

I'm of the opinion its min damage that might and i emphasize might be causing problems because my max damage seems uneffected however sometimes i'll get min damage below whats possible and min damage make up as much as max damage your average or DPS. Its all i can think of but I have from time to time when i looked noticed really low hit/crits on LvB, LB and CL's much lower than should happen.

I also think it might be the soft hit cap I've noticed on mobile fights were there is no one target its better to have hit the hard hit cap than hope that a boomkin or a Spriest is attacking what you are attacking.

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Q u o t e:
Mmootimus, what damage should i be doing with Lightning bolt (max crit) and Lava burst (max crit)

assuming i have 2410 Spell power (all talents ofc)

or tell me how to figure it out ^^

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I put this up on EJ last week for LvB, it should help:

Damage = ((Spellpower x Spell coefficient) + Base Damage) x Clearcasting multiplier x Call of Flame+Concussion modifier x Crit multiplier

Spell coefficient is 0.571 base, 0.771 with Shamanism, 0.871 with Shamanism and Glyph of Lava
Base Damage (without talents) ranges from 1192 - 1518
Clearcasting multiplier = 1.1
Call of Flame+Concussion multiplier = 1.11 (The 5% and the 6% bonus the two talents provide are effectively combined)
Crit multiplier is 2.22 with CSD meta gem + Lava Flows, 2.274 with CSD meta, Lava Flows and 4-pc T7 bonus

If you wanted to look at normal hits, or test without talents, certain multipliers would just be ignored.

In a raid setting you would also potentially get another two bonuses of 13% and 3% - I'll be honest and say I don't know if they work additively or multiplicatively, but thats going to be another multiplier of around 1.16.

*****

One thing I have been saying all along is that once you start to play with the numbers you notice that things like trinket proccs and clearcasting have a massive effect on LvB due to the way it scales. I am absolutely certain that even if there is a bug, a lot of the people seeing one are actually being fooled, and expecting to see huge crits 100% of the time on a target dummy, which they will never get, as they miss buffs, and trinkets aren't up 100% of the time.

I will do LB later if I have the time, but its a lot easier.

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Q u o t e:
Basically: Elemental seems to be bugged. I am struggling to maintain 4k DPS when I was hovering around 5k before dual speccing.

Other people are reporting this problem as well.

Please post here if you have had problem with DPS as elemental after dual speccing (or not), post your glyphs as well and any other information that you think is relevant.

Example:

Dual specced
Glyphs: Totem of Wrath, Flame Shock, Lightning Bolt.

Before: 9-10K Lightning Bolts, Now: 7.2-8.2K Lightning Bolts
Before: 12-13K Lava Bursts, Now: 8-10K Lava Bursts,

Thanks.

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An elemental whith 4k dps at this moment is very great ... i think it very hard to do more than 3k500 dps on Ulduar whith an elemental shaman.. so 1k5 dps under with the new update... So Great !


A lot of french players have the same bug?/nerf? and any bleu explain.

I have the nerves that we have neglected.

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Q u o t e:


I put this up on EJ last week for LvB, it should help:

Damage = ((Spellpower x Spell coefficient) + Base Damage) x Clearcasting multiplier x Call of Flame+Concussion modifier x Crit multiplier

Spell coefficient is 0.571 base, 0.771 with Shamanism, 0.871 with Shamanism and Glyph of Lava
Base Damage (without talents) ranges from 1192 - 1518
Clearcasting multiplier = 1.1
Call of Flame+Concussion multiplier = 1.11 (The 5% and the 6% bonus the two talents provide are effectively combined)
Crit multiplier is 2.22 with CSD meta gem + Lava Flows, 2.274 with CSD meta, Lava Flows and 4-pc T7 bonus

If you wanted to look at normal hits, or test without talents, certain multipliers would just be ignored.

In a raid setting you would also potentially get another two bonuses of 13% and 3% - I'll be honest and say I don't know if they work additively or multiplicatively, but thats going to be another multiplier of around 1.16.

*****

One thing I have been saying all along is that once you start to play with the numbers you notice that things like trinket proccs and clearcasting have a massive effect on LvB due to the way it scales. I am absolutely certain that even if there is a bug, a lot of the people seeing one are actually being fooled, and expecting to see huge crits 100% of the time on a target dummy, which they will never get, as they miss buffs, and trinkets aren't up 100% of the time.

I will do LB later if I have the time, but its a lot easier.

---

right if i did that correctly i should get a max LvB crit of 10941 possible, very odd seeing how i used to do 10600 as my highest crit before the patch (so far)

Yay thanks Mmootius ^^

We got nerfed? o.O afaik i'm still seeing 13k+ LVB crits in 25man, i'm still seeing my dps stay a nice and steady 4k+ every boss fight... And look at my gear.... (GIVE ME SOME DAMN RINGS ALREADY!!) Lost 2 BiS rings to a Resto Druid. Epic moments.... epic moments...

Itachi over and out!

Surely the low lava burst crits are due to toW glyph, and more than likely dropping your t7 4 set? not exactly rocket science required to figure that out :D

i have around 4.4k up to 5k dps, some bosses in ulduar i can have up to 7-8k dps. i just put up FS>LB>LvB>LB>LB etc until LvB is ready again but when it is ready i make 1 up to 2 LB more then i use LvB, and again i make same rotation, got also 5xx haste, Hit cap, 23xx Spell dmg "raid buffed" and 33 almost 34% with focus magic from mage's.

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Q u o t e:


I put this up on EJ last week for LvB, it should help:

Damage = ((Spellpower x Spell coefficient) + Base Damage) x Clearcasting multiplier x Call of Flame+Concussion modifier x Crit multiplier

Spell coefficient is 0.571 base, 0.771 with Shamanism, 0.871 with Shamanism and Glyph of Lava
Base Damage (without talents) ranges from 1192 - 1518
Clearcasting multiplier = 1.1
Call of Flame+Concussion multiplier = 1.11 (The 5% and the 6% bonus the two talents provide are effectively combined)
Crit multiplier is 2.22 with CSD meta gem + Lava Flows, 2.274 with CSD meta, Lava Flows and 4-pc T7 bonus

If you wanted to look at normal hits, or test without talents, certain multipliers would just be ignored.

In a raid setting you would also potentially get another two bonuses of 13% and 3% - I'll be honest and say I don't know if they work additively or multiplicatively, but thats going to be another multiplier of around 1.16.

*****

One thing I have been saying all along is that once you start to play with the numbers you notice that things like trinket proccs and clearcasting have a massive effect on LvB due to the way it scales. I am absolutely certain that even if there is a bug, a lot of the people seeing one are actually being fooled, and expecting to see huge crits 100% of the time on a target dummy, which they will never get, as they miss buffs, and trinkets aren't up 100% of the time.

I will do LB later if I have the time, but its a lot easier.

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Heya Mmootimus, i've read your post on EJ. I've checked with your formula what max dps of LvB was with 2300 SP. (guessing alot of people have around this amount selfbuffed on testdummies) Assuming you have 4 pieces and whatever is needed to get the best possible LvB.

9777 = ((2300*0.871)+1518)*1.1*1.11*2.274

I will not put in any raid tests with this, seeing trinkets might proc getting a ridicilous amount of SP would screw with the test. So i wont test it out with the 13%+3%. Though i think they work both as *1.13*1.03 (but i have not tested that out, and i wont be going to)



*1 thing, might wanna put the Call of Flame+Concussion modifier between ()*

Damage = ((Spellpower x Spell coefficient) + Base Damage) x Clearcasting multiplier x (Call of Flame+Concussion modifier) x Crit multiplier

cause at first i wasnt really reading what u typed underneath it with the:
Call of Flame+Concussion multiplier = 1.11 (The 5% and the 6% bonus the two talents provide are effectively combined)

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Q u o t e:
Surely the low lava burst crits are due to toW glyph, and more than likely dropping your t7 4 set? not exactly rocket science required to figure that out :D

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not exactly rocket science to know how those buffs to LvB work

they werent +10% damage or +10% crit damage buffs as they sound
as Moot has said in this thread the coef of LvB is roughly 0.5 as base and the glyph only improves that to around 0.6 (refer to his post to see actual numbers please)
and the 4pc bonus wasnt amazing either if you crit 12k without it then you'd crit like 12.4k with it.
its not +10% actual damage, its a 10% increase in the way the damage is worked out. like lava flows

this is why people are replacing lvb glyph with it, yes you will see a lil lower lvb's at time but the overal damage SHOULD be higher with the extra SP from the tow glyph.

moot, correct me if this is wrong

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Q u o t e:


not exactly rocket science to know how those buffs to LvB work

they werent +10% damage or +10% crit damage buffs as they sound
as Moot has said in this thread the coef of LvB is roughly 0.5 as base and the glyph only improves that to around 0.6 (refer to his post to see actual numbers please)
and the 4pc bonus wasnt amazing either if you crit 12k without it then you'd crit like 12.4k with it.
its not +10% actual damage, its a 10% increase in the way the damage is worked out. like lava flows

this is why people are replacing lvb glyph with it, yes you will see a lil lower lvb's at time but the overal damage SHOULD be higher with the extra SP from the tow glyph.

moot, correct me if this is wrong

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"What you do need to realise is that your LvB will naturally hit for less now. Taking your number of 3100 spellpower (although that seems too high, even with IotDS up), and assuming another 765 for the Dying Curse procc, then your maximum LvB crit should be 15370. And thats with both damage boosting raid buffs."

Quoted from Moo, I never said anything about overall damage, please read properly before posting.