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Q u o t e:
Well ye, b4 3,1 could so 5.4 on PW and be around 1st places in dps/dmg, now, is like
4.4-4.6 and that's all.

On other bosses is the same dps difference let's say around 400-500 dps less.

Now i guess i gotta stick to my hunter for dps, if wanna break 5.5k dps :<.
Before i could say my hunter and mah shammy could so around same dps now is sad...

-Eagle

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Patchwerk is only a good fight to measure your DPS on, IF, BIG IF, you're in a kill that was very similar.
For example:
Kill A could have taken less than 3min to get him down and was a guild run.
Kill B could have been a pug and taken 5min to get him down.

"So what? I was still playing the same!" - In the fast kill you'll have had Bloodlust for over 25% of the fight, while in the slow kill, this goes down to 10%. Also consider that the fast kill was before the EM nerf, meaning that you would have had EM for 2/3 of the BL, while now you only have it for 1/3.

And if it was a real pug, its very likely that some buffs/debuffs were missing.

In short: if you want to compare fights, its best to provide a combatlog of the fight. So we can see the difference.

Oooh, I am being quoted.

Firstly:

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Btw point of the post is not to chat about how easy blizz coefs can be understood,but a
real explanation for the dps lose most ppl see here and there in the US.
With or without the LvB/ToW glyph.

-Eagle

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The fact is, if it were that simple we would have solved it by now. No one can pin down the problem. Only a few people have even found really solid evidence that there is a problem. Don't get me wrong, I do think it is more likely than not that there is a bug, but when no one is can pin down where it is, about the best we can do is probably explain how Lava Burst should work, and then people can decide if they have a problem or not.

As for the glyph change, yes, just to be clear, it will take a big chunk off your LvB damage, but you should gain slightly overall by all your other spell doing a little more damage.

If we take a well-geared Ele with about 2000 spellpower totally unbuffed, then with flask, FT, ToW etc, and an Illustration fully charged, we could expect them to hit say 2925 spellpower raid buffed. In a raid setting, dropping GoL and the 4-pc bonus would knock 1022 off their largest possible Lava Burst, even allowing for the extra spell power Glyph of ToW brings. That would be larger if you took Dying Curse or other big proccs into the equation. And yes, most of the loss is from the glyph not the 4-pc T7 bonus.

That doesn't explain all the people seeing a drop in LvB damage, but it does partially explain the problem I think.

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Q u o t e:


Patchwerk is only a good fight to measure your DPS on, IF, BIG IF, you're in a kill that was very similar.
For example:
Kill A could have taken less than 3min to get him down and was a guild run.
Kill B could have been a pug and taken 5min to get him down.

"So what? I was still playing the same!" - In the fast kill you'll have had Bloodlust for over 25% of the fight, while in the slow kill, this goes down to 10%. Also consider that the fast kill was before the EM nerf, meaning that you would have had EM for 2/3 of the BL, while now you only have it for 1/3.

And if it was a real pug, its very likely that some buffs/debuffs were missing.

In short: if you want to compare fights, its best to provide a combatlog of the fight. So we can see the difference.

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This ^

People aren't realising the importance in fight lengths when compairing DPS on different bosses.
And the nature of the fights to a lesser degrees also influences the DPS.

I have seen alot of claims that there is some sort of bug with LvB but after two weeks of 3.1 I still haven't seen anyone linking a WWS/WMO/Screenshot of an unusually low LvB crit (or LB for that matter). The loss in DPS compaired the other classes is probably caused by the fact that fewer shamans than other DPS classes are used to DPSing content that is actually hard, since Elemental haven't always been a very viable specc in the raid stacking that was TBC.
Ele shamans just need to bring their A-game to be competitve and not just go tunnelvision and smashing the same 3 button rotaion while standing in the fire.

EDIT: http://wowwebstats.com/vajdtt1voinla - Shamans are fine L2P(could'nt help it ;) )

Right i made a video recording of me in VoA 25 it will take decades to upload it but on the boss my lowest lava burst is 7423 and highest is 10670 spell power is 2513

lol just saw the 25 page thread on the U.S forums 8D

Uhm.. well I haven't thought about it too much since I haven't received as many upgrades as my fellow raiders when it comes to loot in Ulduar so no wonder I'm falling behind them atm.

But yes I've been wondering about some crits I've had and why they've been so low.. Mainly I've wondered over my LB crits.. which sometimes only crit for 3k -.- like wth?! It doesn't happen that often, just every once in a while.. I've also seen LvB crit between the range of 7.8k - 15k

Tho as I said, nothing I've rly taken notice off since I'm so concentrated on keeping some what a stable DPS rotation in the mobile fights and not @#@!ing up on hardmodes.. which is imo way more important than watching your crits fly past the screen, I haven't looked deeply in wws reports either, but maybe I should since blizzard have acknowledge there to be a problem they can't locate with the elemental dps according to MMO-Champion.

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Right i made a video recording of me in VoA 25 it will take decades to upload it but on the boss my lowest lava burst is 7423 and highest is 10670 spell power is 2513

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With 2513 spellpower nad GoL (but without 4P T7) your LvB shouldnt hit for less than 9164 :s

Even with partial resist 7423 just seems too low...

Can your video confirm your spellpower? You may have been out of range for the totem or something similar. Otherwise something is defenately wrong

EDIT: Just realised that you don't have CSD. That might take as much as 500 off your LvB crits and partial resist COULD account for the remaining damage you are missing

make ele benefit from stormstrike again!

first :p


stupid..... but I alwayz wanted to do it :P



ty for the info ;)

When i reach around 3k SP with all buffs and some procs I just started to crit with lava burst for 12k as I did with around 2k SP in 3.0.3 in PvE. :/

I’ve been following this thread about LvB on the EU and American forums for quite a while as well as the discussion on EJ.

I think if there was a bug, then it was to how LvB used to work, and has now been fixed in 3.1 so that it matches the talents and maths as has been proven on numerous occasions. This is why people were seeing such large numbers previously and why we seemed to be doing better than what many theorycrafters thought we would. The loss of the LvB glyph and T7 set piece has also contributed to this somewhat (glyph far more than the set bonus as Mmootimus says)

I also think that “increasing LvB or LB coefficients” is not going to be the fix for Elemental Shaman DPS. That will only increase our burst capability and that is something that is already complained about in PvP when we get crits for 9-10k on occasions. The last thing Blizzard wants to do is make us even more bursty.

What we do need is an increase to DPS as, except on a few gimmicky fights (Mimiron/Kologarn where you can hit all three body parts with CL or Vezak where our mana efficiency and quick casting are very useful) DPS is a lot lower than any of our comparable hybrids and far far behind mages/warlocks.

What we do need is an increase in our damage dealing capacity over time, which will help keep damage higher if we have to move, and not add to our burst in PvP.

My suggestion would be that we should use the unique abilities of the Shaman class in that we have totems. We currently are the only class/spec that has to lose DPS in order to buff the raid. E.g. we drop Totem of Wrath instead of a damaging totem. Even Resto or enhancement shaman can drop a searing or magma totem for more damage.

If Blizzard could make our Totem of wrath have a similar attack to searing totem (or change Totem of wrath so it gave the buff no matter which fire totem we dropped) then that would add between 10-12% to our current DPS. It would be damage over time, rather than burst damage and would continue to work while we moved.

If they can increase the range to 30-35 yards and use a similar mechanic to the changes to 3.1.2 for mirror image, in that searing totem will attack the target with the most aggro on the shaman, that would be ideal.

Just my thinking so far. :)

can't you increase the lightning overload damage and it's chance to procc? wouldn't really increase our burst in PvP

I've noticed my spell power and crit rating displayed on wow armory are different from the numbers displayed ingame (while they used to be the same before 3.1).

is it just a flaw on armory or might it affect ingame mechanics too?

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I've noticed my spell power and crit rating displayed on wow armory are different from the numbers displayed ingame (while they used to be the same before 3.1).

is it just a flaw on armory or might it affect ingame mechanics too?

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It's neither.

The armory used to show you with all the buffs you had when you logged out but now it shows you without them. This includes flame tongue weapon so that is why you are seeing lower numbers.

maybe make ghost wolf useable inside? other ranged classes have blink, disengage, teleport and other stuff this would help dps on some bosses

I remember how i tested elemental first time at lvl 80 when i had get some gear for ele and i managed to do 10-11k LvB crits on target dummys.. well i specced back to resto wich is my main specc and then i get some gear and my spell power went up about 200-250 and then the 3.1 patch came and i bough dualspecc..

the point is.. before i critted 10k with LvB easily, now when i have 200 - 300 more spell power than before 3.1 and i have dualspecc.. i find criting 10k with LvB is nearly impossible to me with out having full raid buffs.. -.-

I have atm 2260 spell power when i have my flame tongue on my weapon and almost 2600sp with totems + flametonue.. man i almost crit 7,5k with my LB to dummys but with LvB i cant i just cant.. crit 10k.. my normal LvB crit is 8.5k.. in pvp 5-6k in full pve gear.. lame.. so lame :/

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Q u o t e:
I've noticed my spell power and crit rating displayed on wow armory are different from the numbers displayed ingame (while they used to be the same before 3.1).

is it just a flaw on armory or might it affect ingame mechanics too?

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Noticed this aswell, only the crit% tho.

Got nothing to do with the lower DPS people *seem* to be experiencing tho :>

Interesting, a blue response on the EU forum and none on the American forum.

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Interesting, a blue response on the EU forum and none on the American forum.

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No. This is basically a copy/paste of a blue response from the US damage dealing forum. Nice they are communicating, of course.