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  • 0. A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournament!   26/04/2009 17:28:45 PDT
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I've noticed over the past few days there are a lot of post up with people struggling to joust.

Especially the City Champions and the dreaded Boneguard Commander seem to couse trouble.
Now I fancy myself quite capable in the art of jousting, so I thought I'd give you some tips that work good for me.



Jousting at the Tournament grounds
The bulk of your lancing will be done at the grounds vs the Valliants and the Champions of the various Capital Cities
I will talk a bit here about the easiest ways to best the capital city of your choice!



#1) The battle begins!
You initiate a battle by talking to the other rider and challanging him to a duel.
Stay where you are! Dont move!

The NPC will ride away from you and starts putting up his defence (you offcourse will have come prepared and should already have 3 layers of defence on before you talked to him in the first place right?).

As soon as the rider is at range, hit 3 to charge forth!
This will break down a layer of his defense (usually at 2 at this point) and prevent him from charging or shieldbreaking you.



#2) Into the fray!
Once you have charged, you will continue to ride trough for a little bit more; turn around as soon as you can and trow a shieldbreaker the moment you have come around and ride towards your opponent while doing so.
This will leave him with -2 defence, -1 from your charge and -1 from the shieldbreaker.

The distance you created after your charge, leaves you with enough range to trow this ranged attack.
However, close the distance immidiatly again as not to give your opponent time to do the same with you.
Just ride to him normally to get into melee range.

There are times that you are a bit slow/laggy and you will eat a shieldbreaker, no worries, just put up a defencelayer again right after.



#3 Battering down the enemy
Once you have reached your opponent again into melee range, do nothing more then just melee him down and keep your defence refreshed

Do not move!

By moving, you will give your opponent the chance to use special moves and gain the initiative, you will want to hold on to that yourself.

Basicly, just stand there and exchange melee wacks for a while.

After a short while, the NPC will gets restless and will try to get range on you for a charge: stand still while he does this! Dont move!
Once he has enough range for a charge, he will need to turn around again, but hey! You held your spot and now are in perfect position to charge! Do so!

Once you have succesfully charged your target, turn around again and trow your shieldbreaker while you get back in melee range again, basicly same story as #1) and #2)



Repeat this process, steps #1) trough #3), to get his HP down to ~10, accept his yield and collect your mark!



#4) Hint and Tips

- Alternate approach, safe route
For a more safe variation, you can just trow a shieldbreaker and close the distance again while your opponent tries to get range on you.
This will lower his defence by -1 for a short while, whereafter you both continue to melee and thus give you the (slight) upper hand.
This is a sure way to win, it leaves no room for your opponent to charge or shieldbreak you, although it will take a little longer.

- Dont's
Dont trow a shieldbreaker before your charge. The NPC that trained you, said you should, but takes to much time (cooldowns) and its likely that your opponent will to exactly the same to you, if you have a chance to pull it off at all before he does so.
You can try it offcourse, and if it works, its beautifull (charge has more effect), but its risky business.



#5) Battling the Boneguard Commander!
Now this guy is the bane of any beginner crusader and is said impossible to solo
Rubbish, he is in fact a pushover.

The commander has 125k hp vs your 75k hp, uneven odds you might say, but your attacks hit just as hard as if you would be fighting a 50k champion of any capital on the Tournament itself. (i.e. you hit him harder then he hits you given equal defence)
So we may conclude its a fair fight.

In fact, this fight works -Exactly- the same as any normal jousting fight in the Tournament.

The main problem are the adds, boneguard scouts can lower your defence at the most unpleasant of times, and you might run into a neighbouring Commander = bad news!

Easiest way to fix this, is to hug the walls of the Citadel and make your way up the stairs behind the Commanders and pull the one in the back up the stairs.
Or, if you cannot do this without aggro-ing footman and other riders, pull one to the Crusaders camp and fight in the back there.
You will loose some HP on the way over from his shieldbreakers, but its not that big a deal if you keep your defence up and avoid the scouts while you kite him.

UPDATE EDIT:
I noticed lately that sometimes the commander / mobs tend to disengage when pulled to the camp, it might be a hotfix to prevent players from fighting here, a bug or just that evade kicks in due to range, I'm not sure.
Just be aware that pulling them to the camp does not -always- work.



Once in a position free of adds, just repeat steps #1) trough #3) as described above and you have just solo'd yourself a Boneguard Commander! Gratz!


Hope this helps!
If there are any people who do things differently, wich works equally well or better, please do add more tips!



Appendix
#6) Helpfull comments from readers:



Tryxie wrote:

Q u o t e:
If I may make a contribution to the battle at the gates thing: try and help others by throwing a shield break in when you have the chance, even if that means becoming next on the commander's threat list. It really makes a difference. Another thing that's helpful is taking care of the scouts that are taking someone else's defence down.

The quest becomes a hell of a lot easier when there are many people doing it at the same time. Even without grouping up for it you can still be of major assistance to each other.

And just a warning: going back to the Argent Crusade camp and quickly switching horses will de-aggro the commander and he will run back to his original spot and reset before you have the chance of engaging again. Handy if your horse is low on health, but as a tactic it fails.


Post from Camulus:

Q u o t e:

Q u o t e:

Now if only they could sort out the issue with getting into combat at the flight point, or not dropping combat after defeating a champion for up to 4-5 minutes, so you can't heal your mount, it'll all be good


This seems to be a proximity bug, noticed this a few times aswell. If you stay around your defeated opponent too long, the game will "think" your still in combat from time to time.
Try riding away the moment you defeated one, thats -seems- to prevent it sometimes.

If that fails: change horses.

[ Post edited by Gaherin ]

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Ancilorn
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  • 1. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 02:46:36 PDT
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This is a nice guide! The Commander is by far the hardest element of the jousting from my experience, but easily done when range pulled from the path they're found on, as opposed to charging in to get an early break.

"Once we jumped off the boat and into the jungle, we cranked up the volume and marched to our own drummer..."

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  • Defias Brotherhood
  • 2. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 02:58:23 PDT
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If I may make a contribution to the battle at the gates thing: try and help others by throwing a shield break in when you have the chance, even if that means becoming next on the commander's threat list. It really makes a difference. Another thing that's helpful is taking care of the scouts that are taking someone else's defence down.

The quest becomes a hell of a lot easier when there are many people doing it at the same time. Even without grouping up for it you can still be of major assistance to each other.

And just a warning: going back to the Argent Crusade camp and quickly switching horses will de-aggro the commander and he will run back to his original spot and reset before you have the chance of engaging again. Handy if your horse is low on health, but as a tactic it fails.
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  • Bronze Dragonflight
  • 3. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 03:09:33 PDT
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Q u o t e:
This is a nice guide! The Commander is by far the hardest element of the jousting from my experience, but easily done when range pulled from the path they're found on, as opposed to charging in to get an early break.
Actually, I found that (especially on busy hours) it's easier to creep the walls, charge on of the Commanders in the back and then pull him straight up the stairs.
Most of the time I'm able to get in a Charge + Shield Breaker before he gets to me.


Q u o t e:
You have no point. You have no meaning. You have no significance.

You will be forgotten.
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  • Earthen Ring
  • 4. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 05:03:25 PDT
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In my eyes, if you have 3 layers of defense, you don't have to wait for them to get impatient to attack, though this certainly makes it easier; all you have to do is bait them with keeping distance but not enough for shield breaker - there will be times they are slow to turn where you can hit them with a charge, and if they do get a shield breaker in it will do almost 0 damage and is easily recuperated. Also playing extremely aggressive and disregarding defense can also work if you accept being sloppy; just NEVER stay at range just like the OP has described. It's the biggest mistake I see people do.

Range -> attack stance
Melee range -> defense stance

That's really all you need to know for npcs. If you joust with players, you really need to take the mobile approach to take the edge imo, movement is very important then. Unpredictable movement. :)

This is a good guide and I hope that Blizzard will expand on this place (as the building in progress hints at ) because I think it's the funnest vehicling yet even though it isn't even that advanced. The charge really has a nice feel to it!
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  • 5. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 07:06:43 PDT
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Q u o t e:
If I may make a contribution to the battle at the gates thing: try and help others by throwing a shield break in when you have the chance, even if that means becoming next on the commander's threat list. It really makes a difference. Another thing that's helpful is taking care of the scouts that are taking someone else's defence down.

The quest becomes a hell of a lot easier when there are many people doing it at the same time. Even without grouping up for it you can still be of major assistance to each other.

And just a warning: going back to the Argent Crusade camp and quickly switching horses will de-aggro the commander and he will run back to his original spot and reset before you have the chance of engaging again. Handy if your horse is low on health, but as a tactic it fails.


Absolutely true, hellping eachother out is the best way to go.
Unfortunatly when I browse this forum, and from my own experience many people will ignore eachother.

But as Tirion himself says: "Only by working together can we succeed!"
WTB more promotion for helping eachother out!

In fact, just yesterday I had this friendly cow shieldbreaking and charging my Commander a few times while I "tanked" him.
A fight that usually takes a couple of minutes was sorted in under the minute.
I returned the favor for him after, worked out real nice.

I'll add your post to the guide, helping out is a real good part of sorting the quests smoothly.
Also the switching horse comment is helpfull, I see its a source of frustration for a lot of people.



Q u o t e:
This is a nice guide! The Commander is by far the hardest element of the jousting from my experience, but easily done when range pulled from the path they're found on, as opposed to charging in to get an early break.


Yarr! I fetched myself a blue Gurloc! w00p! xD

[ Post edited by Gaherin ]

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  • Aerie Peak
  • 6. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 11:44:26 PDT
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Q u o t e:

And just a warning: going back to the Argent Crusade camp and quickly switching horses will de-aggro the commander and he will run back to his original spot and reset before you have the chance of engaging again. Handy if your horse is low on health, but as a tactic it fails.


This is what I do. He haven't de-aggroed so far. I engage him, and charge him whenever it is off CD, while kiting him to the camp. Once my horse is dead (I wait until I am actually dismounted), I quickly take a new one and proceed to charge the commander down. My first solo-kill of him took me as much as 3 horses.

Now I've gotten some more practice and am able to kill him like OP explained, but until I did, I used tactic described above.
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  • Defias Brotherhood
  • 7. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 12:22:41 PDT
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Q u o t e:


This is what I do. He haven't de-aggroed so far. I engage him, and charge him whenever it is off CD, while kiting him to the camp. Once my horse is dead (I wait until I am actually dismounted), I quickly take a new one and proceed to charge the commander down. My first solo-kill of him took me as much as 3 horses.

Now I've gotten some more practice and am able to kill him like OP explained, but until I did, I used tactic described above.


Reset for me every time I tried this.
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  • 8. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 12:29:32 PDT
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Can someone please give me some hints about the commander? I just can't kill him. It was possible during weekend peak times, when there were enough people clearing the adds, but without that, its just plainly impossible.

He just runs away to some add, and then charges me. I can't follow him without agroing the adds, and when I stay, I just die after few cycles.
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  • Defias Brotherhood
  • 9. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 13:03:44 PDT
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Q u o t e:
Can someone please give me some hints about the commander? I just can't kill him. It was possible during weekend peak times, when there were enough people clearing the adds, but without that, its just plainly impossible.

He just runs away to some add, and then charges me. I can't follow him without agroing the adds, and when I stay, I just die after few cycles.


If there aren't many people around, the best thing to do is to kite him to the Argent Crusade camp and fight him there (be careful not to pull any adds along). If you get low on health you're at least relatively safe; either he resets or you can jump on a fresh horse quickly.

Just to add: don't even think about trying to fight that guy without your horse. I tried it on my death knight today, who got him to about half health before losing her horse. He had 3 shield charges on him the whole time and I was barely able to put a dent in him (well, small dents I managed). After about 7 or 8 minutes I gave up, because he was eating away too much health, so I used shadowmeld. It might be doable if someone else keeps his shields broken, though.
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  • 10. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   27/04/2009 14:38:06 PDT
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Q u o t e:
Can someone please give me some hints about the commander? I just can't kill him. It was possible during weekend peak times, when there were enough people clearing the adds, but without that, its just plainly impossible.

He just runs away to some add, and then charges me. I can't follow him without agroing the adds, and when I stay, I just die after few cycles.


Hi Nias,

It sounds like he is trying to get range on you like I described in step #1) above.
He will do this right at the beginning of the fight in order to setup a charge on you: just ignore this.

The first thing you want to do is kite him in a position so you can fight him on your terms like the guide above.
When you first aggro him (for instance trow a shieldbreaker from a safe distance to get his attention, i.e "tap" him) just run to wherever you like to fight while avoiding any adds.
Do this right away, just trow the ranged attack and make a run for it right after!

The court of bones is small enough to not have him disengage you wherever you go.
Only time he will reset is when your horse either dies, or you jump off it.

So best advice I can give: trow a shieldbreaker from a safe distance, run to where you want to fight and close the distance when you are in a comfortable position and have your battle commence there.

Now like I said: you -will- lose some HP from the shieldbreakers he will trow while he is chasing you, dont worry about that, keep the defence up and return the favour once you are where you wanna be.

Good luck!




Q u o t e:
This is what I do. He haven't de-aggroed so far. I engage him, and charge him whenever it is off CD, while kiting him to the camp. Once my horse is dead (I wait until I am actually dismounted), I quickly take a new one and proceed to charge the commander down. My first solo-kill of him took me as much as 3 horses.

Now I've gotten some more practice and am able to kill him like OP explained, but until I did, I used tactic described above.

Hi Galander,

It sounds like you are in luck there.
It might be becouse you have some "left over" aggro when your hose dies and you are able to get back into the fight when you mount anew inmediatly.

I've tested this, and only managed to get it right once, I believe this might be a bug becouse the Commander is programmed to reset and disengage whenever your actual horse dies.

Altough it -can- work (for now), I would not advise it to be a viable tactic, you might be in for a long haul of kiting back and forth and wasting many of the crusades campaign horses in the the process!

I would also advise against charging while kiting, while the benefit is you can deal quite the amount of damage on the trip over to where you actually want to fight, the risk of aggroing scouts or other adds on the way is really substantial.
Given the high amount of players and/or adds in the area at any given time, I'd say this is quite risky.

But if you are able to pull it off with succes, well keep it up!

[ Post edited by Gaherin ]

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  • Sunstrider
  • 11. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   28/04/2009 06:47:37 PDT
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Never actually had troubles. Usually take champions down with 35-45K hp left. Just keep defend up use thrust and sometimes strafe (q or e) and use shieldbraker. Also when they try to get range just charge them. and while affected by charge buff use shield braker. this tactic is probably also the things the npc's use when you see them "cheat"

about the bonegaurd commanders. They are also not hard just do no overaggro, you can just pull them around the land without aggroing scouts, if you do aggro scouts just kill scouts first (bonegaurd commanders only do 30-10K damage if you do it the right way

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  • Defias Brotherhood
  • 12. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   28/04/2009 07:07:14 PDT
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Q u o t e:
Never actually had troubles. Usually take champions down with 35-45K hp left. Just keep defend up use thrust and sometimes strafe (q or e) and use shieldbraker. Also when they try to get range just charge them. and while affected by charge buff use shield braker. this tactic is probably also the things the npc's use when you see them "cheat"

about the bonegaurd commanders. They are also not hard just do no overaggro, you can just pull them around the land without aggroing scouts, if you do aggro scouts just kill scouts first (bonegaurd commanders only do 30-10K damage if you do it the right way




I just saw almost the exact same post in another thread. Funny, that.

Everybody knows about your tips. The commanders, as has been said before, are not very hard to take down. It's when you get unwanted aggro that you're in trouble. Taking the time to kill the scouts while the commander is charging and pummeling down on you is usually when things go south.

The best time to do this quest is when there are more people doing it. When you're alone, be very, very careful. Try to clear a path first by getting rid of any scout in your way (and hope they don't respawn quickly).
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  • 13. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   29/04/2009 07:18:51 PDT
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Commander have always been the easiest one for me since the charges does like 50k damage... Takes forever to get them down if you only are doing melee.

I'm the best, after Evildutch ofc
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  • Turalyon
  • 14. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   01/05/2009 15:15:43 PDT
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Really helpful guide, thanks.

Can this be stickied?
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  • Defias Brotherhood
  • 15. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   02/05/2009 06:25:20 PDT
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I have to say I find the jousting quests increasingly easy. I guess experience helps a lot. So, if anyone is still struggling with them: hang in there and just keep doing them. Use the guide and the tips given here and you'll get the hang of it.
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  • Bronzebeard
  • 16. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   03/05/2009 07:51:35 PDT
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I pretty much only do a variation of #2, it makes fights take waaaaay shorter than your full tactic, and I lose only 3-4k health.

It's cool to hate.
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  • 18. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   04/05/2009 23:39:00 PDT
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Q u o t e:

<snip>
super girl and I love this song, what is the song called?



Keylogger folks
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  • 19. Re: A guide to Jousting at the Argent Tournam   04/05/2009 23:44:30 PDT
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Q u o t e:
I pretty much only do a variation of #2, it makes fights take waaaaay shorter than your full tactic, and I lose only 3-4k health.


Well offcourse when you get the hang of it you can vary as much as you feel comfertable with.
And #2) is mostly the base mechanics of the fight.
In any case, one should do what works best for them, just wrote down what is my opinion of an optimal strat in terms of both effectivness and safety for those who struggle.

But mind if I ask how you do it differently then? Might add that as a alternative.
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