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Q u o t e:


goddamn MVP trolls! I swear :P

I'm Installing my test realm client to check out what the DPS is like with the changes to explosive shot and black arrow, but the majority of people going "OMG 20% NERF!" don't seem to be able to take in the fact it's only been nerfed 10%. The changes to scaling are already live, the patch is just confirming what is already the case.

With the new sniper training, glyphs and black arrow, I reckon it'll either remain the same or result in a very slight decrease, which is sad but PvP nerfs have always scrwed over PvE performance since the dawn of WoW.

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GC:

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Q u o t e:
Yes, we did nerf the damage of Explosive Shot a little more. After many of the changes to locks, DKs, warriors and the rest, we felt SV hunters were too high. MM may still be a little too low. BM seems on target at the moment, but we had a few bugs in new pet abilities especially that was making it hard to get accurate numbers.

I'm not sure what you mean about Survival compexity. Are you talking about the shots themselves or the organization of the tree? I think some players are still thinking they are supposed to trap dance in PvE.

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source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15443525832&sid=1&pageNo=3#57

So its an additional nerf...

On the whole QQ thematic... Well stop whining and adopt, Or post some real numbers, dont go 9-12k hits QQ hurts QQ. It's not real... Also Thats a suggestion to other classes which still thing that PvP should be played in PvE gear, cuz u get more damage in that way. Not True!

I am getting totally fed up with this **%# - every patch screwing around with the class I love to play.
For me it is ruining the enjoyment of the game at the moment - can't believe that is what Blizz intend ?

Stop pissing around with Hunters ( PLEASE ) - especially as you don't seem to know what your doing !

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Q u o t e:
I am getting totally fed up with this **%# - every patch screwing around with the class I love to play.
For me it is ruining the enjoyment of the game at the moment - can't believe that is what Blizz intend ?

Stop pissing around with Hunters ( PLEASE ) - especially as you don't seem to know what your doing !

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Should you have taken the time to investigate a bit, you would have found that the very classes that currently top hunters are getting equally if not more severe nerfs to their damage done.

Please try to hold off the nerfing QQ untill we hit the final stages of the PTR, or even untill we hit live...or oif you insist on qqing, partake in the PTR and check all the info brought forth on all classes, not just your own. A nerf on its own looks like a nerf, but when you take into account the bigger picture, maybe you're not getting nerfed as badly as others...

On that last comment...blizz doesn't know what they're doing? They design the game for crying out loud...if you don't understand a change they make, that means YOU don't know what you're doing.

Hold on... MM too high? :o

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Q u o t e:

For pve, hunter survival dmg is pretty even with most classes, Mages are still able to top us, and so are fury warriors. Then we get a nerf to a shot that is about 40-45% of hunter dmg in their rotation with out buffing the other shots to compensate. I seriously hope these dont go live, or survival is dead.



What? Sv in our 25 man raids are always topping the dps meters with minimum 5.5k , 2nd places are 3.7-4.2k max...you say that balanced? to who u say that crap realy?
I usually find myself at 2-3rd place, not even close to sv.
Funny combo : Massive dmg +Extremely high crtic chance in 1 shot.

Thank god blizz finally woke up and and nerfing explosive shot.
Finaly we will not see 95% hunters as SV on the servers, and i wont feel lonely as the only MM raiding hunter in my server, and thats just becuase i like playing this spec.

Do i need to remind you that ,logicly, SV doesnt ever ment to be, the top dps or at least to Dominate Over MM and BM..
Survival is....=Survival
Marks man and BM is where the dps should go.

And even with that nerf, u still get a new talent thatt increases ur dps by 6%, black arrow and if they will manage to install trap luancher+immolations, SV will turn into Afflictiln warlocks doing massive dmg, even with the Explosive shot nerf.

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Acctually you are wrong blizz policy is the harder the specc is to play the more dps it should be able to do if played right so by that logic bm should be bottom mm and surv at top, atleast thsts what they said was their reason for nerfing bm to quote the almighty GC himself

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Q u o t e:

What? Sv in our 25 man raids are always topping the dps meters with minimum 5.5k , 2nd places are 3.7-4.2k max...you say that balanced? to who u say that crap realy?

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well, I bet he doesn't says "that crap" for people that play in guilds were mages and a couple of hybrid specs do 4k dps (lol at your mages, mate) as you..

So it's me a fault then and not the pissing around with each spec ?

I played SV originally until it became underpowered in WoTLK raids , so switched to BM . BM gets nerfed and SV gets buffed - oh hang-on , we destroyed BM , despite what every BM hunter was saying and SV is now OP , so we re - buff BM and re- nerf SV - sounds like they know what they are doing to me.

Whats the point of another shot " Black Arrow " ? - why ? - I don't want it or need it - fix the piece of crap you gave us called "Freezing Arrow"

Yes they desigened the game - along time ago , and it still seems to be in test phase - paid for by us mugs.

Freezing arrow is a very sueful shot in PvP Kellvos, once you get used to it it is freaking usefull in alot of circumstances.

the reasoning behind Black Arrow sire night elf, is to eliminate trap dancing in PvE this is why it shares a CD with traps, in PvE bliz want you to use Black Arrow to proc your LnL's while in PvP they want you to use Traps to proc your LnL's (so ther eplanned) this has been stated by GC himself. so feel free to look it up on MMO champions blue tracker.

Survival with this ES nerf is not going to be hit that hard Kellvos so i wouldnt worry about having to change spec just yet.

anywho you never have to change spec there all viable.

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on another note if the devs never changed or added specs then we'd all be complaining about how mind numbingly boring and bland the whole experience of DPS'ing is.

simple answer: there's no winning, theres always whine. dont come to the forums and you'll be a happy hunter. and if you do come to the forums, dont get sucked into the emptyness void of whine.

p.s. dont just look at these hunter ''nerfs'' look at the other classes aswell, some are getting hit much, much worse.

i've read through everyones points here, and personally i DO NOT WANT to go back to bm. I dont really enjoy it for pvp or pve.

Although i know there are alot of complaints about the changes, i do think survival needs a little nerf. But not a nerf interms of damage, but in different abilities, e.g. take damage away from explosive shot, but do somthing to mean that our dps isnt dependant on one shot. Which is what they seem to be attempting to do with black arrow, its a start so lets see where it leads.

I dont want the class to be another, spam one button class anymore so please dont make us go back to BM. I like rotations =]

So i cant actually wait to see what the live version of this is like.

p.s. if u make it like the wc3 version of black arrow, dont make it skeletons =p

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Q u o t e:
I'm just curious, are you pulling numbers out of your arse? Because clearly, you would have noticed that ferals don't do more damage at maimed targets now, as glyph of shred has been changed.

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they were his PTR test numbers...

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Q u o t e:
Also, being able to do it on range, aswell as having a mortalstrike and instant CC makes all the difference in the world.

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Being able to survive in melee makes all the difference in the world too...

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Q u o t e:
Now, as for comparing the burst of somebody with an energy system to somebody who can just spam away without any limitations is just plain off.

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So it's OK for us to die first all the time because we don't have an energy system?

Freezing arrow useful in pvp - yea seen it used loads - LOL ( oh I'm a nelf hunter what the hell do I know !)

.....actually I have changed my mind - carry on Blizz to the point where I get so pissed off I quit the game and get my life back ....what a good idea !

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Q u o t e:
they were his PTR test numbers...

Being able to survive in melee makes all the difference in the world too...

So it's OK for us to die first all the time because we don't have an energy system?

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Dont reason with em, people will never get use to hunters killing.

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Q u o t e:
To quote Ghostcrawler from the US forums (for those that have yet to follow the link offered in previous posts in this thread)

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Hey Ancilorn!
Thank you for quoting it here, hopefully we will see some of you posting such stuff more often (and way earlier too! ;-D). Apreaciate that your checking in here. We want more :-).
Nerf itself sucks and you can tell GC to go... boil himself :-P.

I'd still like confirmation whether it's just the 10% nerf to base damage or it's a new 12.5% reduction in scaling on top of that.

so are we at about 0.12 or 0.14 AP scaling now? =[

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Q u o t e:
Nerfs
Explosive Shot: Base damage lowered by 10%. Attack power scaling reduced by 12.5%

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DEAD ES, pewpew nurfed to the ground baby.

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Q u o t e:
loss of 15% Explosive Shot crit from tnt

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yea, we gain a 4% crit glyph, doesnt rly make up tho, as we have to trade in another glyph.

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Q u o t e:
Buffs
Glyph of Explosive Shot: Increases the critical strike chance of Explosive Shot by 4%.
Glyph of Kill Shot: Reduces the cooldown of Kill Shot by 6 sec

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aight, 2 glyphs that are decent, but will take 2 spots, drop serpent sting and steady 10% if serpent I guess.

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Q u o t e:
Hunting Party (Tier 10) is now a 3 point talent, increasing agility by 1/2/3% and your Arcane Shot, Explosive Shot and Steady Shot critical strikes have a 33/66/100% chance to grant up to 10 party or raid members mana regeneration equal to 0.25% of the maximum mana per second. Lasts for 15 sec.

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3% agi buff. fine but not making up for the big dps losses from the ES nerfs.

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Q u o t e:
New Talent* Black Arrow (Tier 9) - Fires a Black Arrow at the target, increasing all damage done by you to the target by 6% and dealing [ 10% of RAP + 785 ] Shadow damage over 15 sec. Costs 6% base mana. 5-35 yard range. Instant Cast. 30 sec cooldown.

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you can't really call this a buff, it replaces Serpent sting, has an uptime of 50% (so less LnL procs)
and no more 10% dmg on steady (makes multi shot and aimed shot look better)

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Q u o t e:
Sniper Training (Tier 9) has been changed to increase the critical strike chance of your Kill Shot ability by 5/10/15%, and while standing still for 6 sec., you gain Sniper Training increasing the damage done by your Steady Shot, Aimed Shot, Black Arrow and Explosive Shot by 2/4/6% Lasts 15 sec. (Previously increased damage and critical strike chance based on your range to the target)

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this aint a buff, it's just a change to the spell. we now dont have to keep the range, we need to stand still for 6 sec. keep in mind that you have to move quite often.

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Q u o t e:
T.N.T. (Tier 4) now increases the damage done by your Explosive Shot, Explosive Trap and Immolation Trap by 2%/4%/6%. (Previously increased critical strike chance of explosive shot and and gave it a chance to stun the target)

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from alot of crit to 6% dmg, not a buff, rather a nerf.

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Q u o t e:
Probs a nerf overall but is it so big a nerf? p.s plz nerf mages

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yes it IS a big nerf.

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Q u o t e:
What? Sv in our 25 man raids are always topping the dps meters with minimum 5.5k , 2nd places are 3.7-4.2k max...you say that balanced? to who u say that crap realy?
I usually find myself at 2-3rd place, not even close to sv.
Funny combo : Massive dmg +Extremely high crtic chance in 1 shot.

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Numbers do not lie, mate.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/6/0/3

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/classrank/6

If it wasn't for these numbers, I suppose it'd be possible for one to claim whatever stroke their fancy. Since we do have access to WWS parses and WoW meters, it is simply no longer possible, I think, to claim that whales eat grass in the Argentinian plains or that sharks can fly, and have people believe you.

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Q u o t e:


Numbers do not lie, mate.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/6/0/3

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/classrank/6

If it wasn't for these numbers, I suppose it'd be possible for one to claim whatever stroke their fancy. Since we do have access to WWS parses and WoW meters, it is simply no longer possible, I think, to claim that whales eat grass in the Argentinian plains or that sharks can fly, and have people believe you.

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Yes, those numbers clearly show the average raid damage that Blizzard is looking at. IF Patchwerk would've been a 10 min fight those could've worked, but not when its a 1 min fight.