World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1

Vile

< Honorbound >

21. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:17:41 PST

Imp shadow bolt is one stack for all warlocks. But that doesn't have any effect on the outcome of crit value since it's independant on who actually gets the crit. Any crit will make the following 4 direct shadow damage spells deal 20% more damage, the only spammable direct damage shadow spell is shadow bolt. This is analogous to giving the crit damage to the last crit instead of to the person with the first ignite for calculating fire mage crit values. It's not exactly granted to the person who deals the crit but the effect on raid DPS is the same.

On my warlock i outdamage frost mages. If your warlocks don't then they have geared badly or are just plain lazy.

The 9(7) / 21 / 21(23) spec gives 5% more shadow damage for a warlock, but if you have to bring an imp out you lose 15% damage. SM+ruin is a more versatile spec for raid damage since you are not as dependant on having to sacc and can bring the blood pact while still at full damage potential.

Edit: Brigita, my maths are correct. It's not a similar debuff to scorch, 4 spells after any shadow bolt crit gain 20% to their damage (not to talk about the bug which let you drain life at 20% increased effectiveness, it's supoposed to be direct damage spells and not channeled spells).

[ Post edited by Vile ]

Aeus

Blizzard Poster

24. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:28:24 PST

Q u o t e:
So after severe nerfs to the mages main damage tree and buffs to other ranged classes the question has on several occations been posed: "What is the mages role in TBC?"

After several hours of analyzing the changes to spell damage coefficients, the raid utility of the classes fighting for ranged DPS spots in a raid, and the ability to fill multiple roles in a raid the solution was quite obvious. We're there to conjure water/food for the raid.

New conceptual artwork of mage tier 4:
http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Movies/9811/11/water.boy/waterboy.jpg
http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Movies/9907/07/isaac.hayes/chef.jpg
((The set bonuses are as of yet not confirmed, but rumors has it they will decrease the cost of conjuring food/water by 1% depending on what set you chose as 3-piece bonus, the 5-piece bonus will give you a 1% chance to get double the amount of food/water when conjuring))

So finally mages will have a role in TBC raiding. But wait... can't you just conjure all the water/food needed before the raid and be gone with the mage before the instance starts?

Well, here is where the brilliance of blizzard comes into the picture. Apparently the new concept of conjured items disaprearing when logging into one of the new arenas was so great that this will also be applied to endgame raid instances. So you'd HAVE to bring a mage inside the instance to conjure said food/water to have it availible to you at all. Coupled with the complete removal of all vendor bought food and beverage (or just making it unuseable inside instances) this will once and for all ensure mages get a spot for these highly sought after raid spots. But wait... can't a mage just conjure everything the raid needs in 5 minutes, so he can then get kicked and replaced by a class that will actually be useful?

No no, not at all! Blizzard, in it's infinite wisdom, has already forseen this problem. Water and food of any rank will now only be conjured 1 at a time, and the mana cost is 100% of your total mana bar. This way you need to place the mage in the same group as a few shadow priests for the mana regen, otherwise the mage would have to drink that 1 water he makes just to be able to conjure another (this concept being called the norwegian infinity machine).

See it all works out in the end, and now i hope you all also understand the role of the mage in TBC raiding.

If that is your view on things I wish you luck getting invited to raids in T.B.C. oO

World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade will be in stores on January 16th, 2007.

Aeus, critting flamers since 2005.

Vile

< Honorbound >

26. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:33:28 PST

Q u o t e:

warlock with same gear can not oudps mage, it just can not, if all try their best.

But I agree many times in raid the top of dmg tables are peoples who trys the hardest and do not slack, many time i (have + 450 dmg) do more dmg than friend mage with 700 dmg, but id does mean I can outdps him, it means I am more concentrate in raid.

again if lock and mage do their best, and both are pve speced for max dmg, there is no way lock can outdps mage.

reasons for that are:
mana eficiency
aggro problems

and mana eficiency is the main reason, you did not calculate that. yust for LT locks lose a lot of dmg, on bosses thy need to LT alot. Mages have much better mana reg and mana eficiency. there lies difference

When i play my warlock i outdamage all frost mages and some fire mages, i know my fire mage deals slightly more damage than my warlock, and i know why: Threat reduction and combustion (warlocks lack a burst ability with a cooldown).
What about this statement is hard to understand? The mage and warlock are members of the same raid guild, doing the same bosses. The difference in damage output is almost negliable.

Instead of randomly blurting out random "facts" how about you actually take your time to calculate the effect of the improved shadow bolt talent yourself, and you'll see.

Vile

< Honorbound >

27. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:34:13 PST

Q u o t e:

If that is your view on things I wish you luck getting invited to raids in T.B.C. oO

If this is what you're doing to mages in TBC you better wish us all the same.

Edit: Aeus, take the numbers I've presented to someone who understand mathematics at blizzard, i would love to hear where i am wrong. Just show me what I missed and you'll make me shut up. There is an old saying: "The customer is always correct". Please prove me wrong.

[ Post edited by Vile ]

Bulka

< The Burning Crusade >

29. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:37:36 PST

Q u o t e:

If that is your view on things I wish you luck getting invited to raids in T.B.C. oO

after all nerfs and comparison to other caster classes(warlock's) most mages doubt we would be so highly sought for raids but you may enlight us on what tommorow brings for mage in PVE and PVP.

Blessed the mind too small for doubt

Cece

< Quintessence >

30. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:40:32 PST

MAGES complaining about other classes being chosen over them for raids?

This is just hilarious.

Q u o t e:
Instead of randomly blurting out random "facts" how about you actually take your time to calculate the effect of the improved shadow bolt talent yourself, and you'll see.

So you are isolating ONE SINGLE good talent and think you have proven something?
Even if Improved Shadow Bolt improves the quality of our crits nicely, what about the higher number of crits you get from:
- higher intellect
- talents (5 % devastation, compared to 6 % critical mass + 3 % pyromaniac)
- Combustion.

[ Post edited by Cece ]

Pyrostemplar

< Shieldwall >

32. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:47:45 PST

Q u o t e:

If that is your view on things I wish you luck getting invited to raids in T.B.C. oO

Mmmh - if that is his view on things I wish you (Blizzard) luck in getting him to buy TBC and keeping his subscription (unless he rerolls, ofc) ;)

Now on topic, although I believe we will have to wait and see before passing definitive judgement, things are not looking good. Looking miserable on the PVP side of life and not looking all too good on the PVE side. While I do believe mages will keep on geting spot raids - if nothing else because we are flashy :P - their actual input to the raiding success may be diminished, which is something the class doesn't want.

Anyway, the new "novelty" talents imho make no sense at all and.. suck... WE and Invisibility... wtf...

Desideria

< HPT >

33. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:49:13 PST

Q u o t e:

I do not need to calculate, I raid for one year, our guild has pleyers with same skill and simmilar gear. Mage outdps lock because mana eficiency. that is a fack you can only prove in raid, not in theorycraft. stop this whine. Mages outdps locks with no problem. If your mages can not do that it is their problem, slacking and so on...

If the warlock can use corruption, immolate and maybe CoA and you have a shadowpriest in the raid the warlocks are slackers if they at least do not at least the same damage as firemages.

Vile

< Honorbound >

34. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 06:51:26 PST

Q u o t e:
So you are isolating ONE SINGLE good talent and think you have proven something?

I'll just take a second to quote you when i said it meant crits gave more than 250% damage.

Q u o t e:
Very unlikely.

Yup yup, proved you wrong. Now how about you calculate it yourself just to see, then find out that 1% crit for a warlock equals more than 15 +damage, get new gear accordingly, spec to a decent DPS spec and see what happens (you'll be surprised).

So apaprently i know more about maximizing DPS as a warlock than you do. You're cmplaining about Warlock DPS, i say it's fine. I wonder who is right...

Aeus

Blizzard Poster

36. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 07:29:20 PST

Q u o t e:

If this is what you're doing to mages in TBC you better wish us all the same.

Edit: Aeus, take the numbers I've presented to someone who understand mathematics at blizzard, i would love to hear where i am wrong. Just show me what I missed and you'll make me shut up. There is an old saying: "The customer is always correct". Please prove me wrong.

Did I quote your numbers? No, I quoted your op; numbers? what numbers? Had you started out with a constructive post, however..

I'm not looking for war, just reason.

World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade will be in stores on January 16th, 2007.

Aeus, critting flamers since 2005.

Vile

< Honorbound >

37. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 07:38:22 PST

Q u o t e:

Did I quote your numbers? No, I quoted your op; numbers? what numbers? Had you started out with a constructive post, however..

I'm not looking for war, just reason.

Shadow bolt still getting 270% crit effect. Shadow bolt scaling better than fireball. And all this before TBC where DOTs and channeled spells will get buffed damage coefficients and the amount of debuff slots increased making them far less prone to getting knocked off. If there apart from these DOTs exist a single target nuke which scales better than any mage spell how can we ever compete?

Constructive posting has so far not given any result. Apparently nothing the mages say goes through to the people responsible for creating the game we pay to play. Although the OP was written in an ironic way i think you got the point? This is the future as i see it for mages in TBC right now. If you want constructive posts to ignore i could make one of them as well. Getting right on it.

Kalana

< Bad Hair Day >

38. Re: The mages role in TBC, REVEALED!!1 09/11/2006 07:43:24 PST

Q u o t e:

Shadow bolt still getting 270% crit effect.

wtf?

Kalana 60 Undead Mage, Scalare 60 Undead Rogue, Kalana 60 Human Warlock, Pintsize 60 Gnome Warrior

Pink haired gnomes > YOU!

Forum > Classes > Mage