Most of the races of Azeroth are explained in some way. The humans, dwarves and gnomes suffered from the Curse of Flesh and became mortal. The night elves descended from the trolls (in theory) and the high elves descended from the night elves. However, the tauren, trolls and many others are not explained. Was all life created by the Titans? Perhaps the Old Gods who existed on Azeroth long before the Titans came to Azeroth. The Silithid were created by C'thun from the energies of the Well of Eternity, so perhaps the Old Gods created other life as well? Another thread theorised how the Old Gods have been plotting all along, so perhaps they created races such as the trolls to be involved in their plans?
Feel free to criticise, debate or offer your own theories.

---

Q u o t e:
However, the tauren, trolls and many others are not explained. Was all life created by the Titans?

---

Well, the tauren say their creator was this mysterious Earthmother. It is not fully known, who might this character be. I would guess Eonar myself, the Lifebinder, creator of Alexstraza and Ysera. There are other theories as well. These include Alexstraza and Therazane the Stonemother for example.

Eonar is a strong suggestion, indeed. She holds the power of life and she hates the undead. And the taunka, the relatives to the tauren live in Northrend, close to Ulduar, which is closely related to the Titans.

For more information http://www.wowwiki.com/Earth_Mother

---

Q u o t e:
Most of the races of Azeroth are explained in some way. The humans, dwarves and gnomes suffered from the Curse of Flesh and became mortal. The night elves descended from the trolls (in theory) and the high elves descended from the night elves. However, the tauren, trolls and many others are not explained. Was all life created by the Titans? Perhaps the Old Gods who existed on Azeroth long before the Titans came to Azeroth. The Silithid were created by C'thun from the energies of the Well of Eternity, so perhaps the Old Gods created other life as well? Another thread theorised how the Old Gods have been plotting all along, so perhaps they created races such as the trolls to be involved in their plans?
Feel free to criticise, debate or offer your own theories.

---

Correction: The silithid was already here, as described a Primitive and a Low Specie, when Cthun Falled down in Silthius he saw this specie and decided to make use of it. he made them hes army and made avatars to control them, so he didnt create them, he simply made them into hes own army to conquer Kalimdor.

Yeah, realy nothing much says about the Darkspear Trolls or just the rest of them, on their origin or creation...

I'm sure trolls would like for nightelves to be their descendants and therefore spread teh lies ;>

Besides, there is no clarity in the lore at all if the NElves were from trolls, the other way around or whatnot. But it makes sense to me as nightelves seem like one step or two ahead in the evolution compared to trolls, thus, trolls could be elf ancestors. Such as monkeys are ours. :P

Okay... from an OOC perspective, let's examine the revealed information so far. I shall not use wowwiki as a definitive source, because the famous article written about Elves from Trolls given is pure speculation. Indeed later on Wowwiki wrote a sister article with an alternative origin of Elves which is based on a combination of Tauren myth and Night elf tradition so far revelaed in IC texts. Both conclusions are speculative and you must judge each on their merits. you must also refer to wowwiki if you want to examine what they say.

For this discussion, i shall focus on what the Official website has to say about this.

Taken from the website race description.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/races/nightelves.html

---

Q u o t e:
The reclusive Night Elves were the first race to awaken in the World of Warcraft. These shadowy, immortal beings were the first to study magic and let it loose throughout the world nearly ten thousand years before Warcraft I. The Night Elves' reckless use of magic drew the Burning Legion into the world and led to a catastrophic war between the two titanic races. The Night Elves barely managed to banish the Legion from the world, but their wondrous homeland was shattered and drowned by the sea. Until recently, the Night Elves closed themselves off from the rest of the world and remained hidden atop their holy mountain of Hyjal for many thousands of years. The Legion's invasion brought the Night Elves out of their long period of slumber. They now have renewed interest in shaping the world, and for the first time are allying themselves with other races to insure the continued survival of Azeroth. As a race, Night Elves are typically honorable and just, but they are very distrusting of the 'lesser races' of the world. They are nocturnal by nature and their shadowy powers often elicit the same distrust that they have for their mortal neighbors.

---

Do note that this is not given from an in-game perspective, it is presented as factual description, as it tells anyone entering the universe what the state of affairs is. Other sections quoted form now on are in the story section, which are presented from an IC perspective based on currently known information, but we can regard it as truthful also.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/troll/history.html
Summary, for a few thousand years, up to 16,000 years ago, two major triibes of trolls emerged from the Zanalari Trolls, and formed two empires, largely eastern based. The Gurubashi of the South Eastern and the AMani of the central forest region. Though never friends, they had a common enemy throughout much of those early days, the Azj'Aqir. The Trolls fought the Azj'Aqir. They eventually won forcing the insectoids to split into two kingdoms. Azjol Nerub in the northern wastes and the Ahn'Qiraji of the south desert.

---

Q u o t e:
The night elves developed along the shores of the Well of Eternity, and so they were strengthened by its energies. Despite the trolls' attempts to keep this new race from claiming further territories, the night elves built up a mighty empire that expanded rapidly across Kalimdor. Wielding fierce magics never before imagined by the trolls, the night elves soon threatened the two greatest empires in the world.

The night elves systematically dismantled the trolls' defenses and supply chains. Unable to counter the elves' destructive magics, the trolls buckled under the onslaught. The territories of the Gurubashi and Amani empires fragmented within only a few years, and the night elves' shockingly quick victory incurred the trolls' eternal hatred.

Eventually the night elves were burned by the arcane fires they had sought to control: the elves' reckless use of magic lured the Burning Legion to the world of Azeroth. The demons crushed much of the night elves' civilization. There are no records to indicate that the Legion attacked either troll civilization, but it is likely that battles took place across the breadth of the continent.

At the end of this terrible conflict, known today as the War of the Ancients, the Well of Eternity imploded. The resulting shockwave shattered ancient Kalimdor into several landmasses and drove the center of the continent far beneath the sea. Large tracts of land that once belonged to the Amani and Gurubashi empires still exist in the present-day lands of Quel'Thalas and Stranglethorn, respectively.

---

So we gain more insight. The Elves don't mean much to the trolls till they start to claim new terrirtories. The article repeats what the class description mentions that the ELves originated from the well of eternity. For all we know that could have been 100,000 years ago. By nature the Elves are not conquering or claiming race. My theory here is that Elves have generally been about preserving beauty etc modelled after Tolkein's Elves, however something happened, likely when they learnt to start manipulating the magics of the well of eternity. THey grew ambitious. Or possibly furious of the disregard for natureby the trolls and some other sentient races.

The Night Elves started claiming territory, likely as united force, it is at this point they catch the attention of the Trolls and become the NEW enemies. Night Elves have ALWAYS been immortal (till very recently) and were likely far out-numbered by Trolls anyway, who do reproduce quite alot (relative to an Elf) something that is common amongst mortal races. It is in learning how to use magic, as we are told they were the first to do, that they could have any hope of ever challenging 2 vastly out-numbering Troll
Empires.

What the Qiraji could not do in a few thousand years, the Elves managed to do in a relatively much shorter period, I can assume this probably took a few centuries, no more. Elven nature and troll nature are vastly different, i suspect the Elves have long been disgusted by the Trolls and we do discover that Elven motivation to beautify the world and cleanse it from corruptioin went to maddening levels in it's most powerful leader, Azshara. The story isn't told how she ascended the throne, but she eventually did, the Well of Eternity book reveals her mindset: She falls to the seduction of Sargeras because she believe he is powerful enough and that his motive is to destroy the destructive races and cleanse the world so it can be rebuilt pure just like it was in the beginning before all the meddlesome emerging races started destroying things. This sentiment might have been common amongst Elves, and probably exarcebated once they started wielding arcane magic and actually gained some real power to implement their ideals. I wouldn't be surprised if it is Azshara or a predecessor who thought similar that decided to lead the Elves to war, and that was the motive of their war.

We are not told however. Just that the Kal'dorei were newer foes, not that they just appeared, but they became the new enemies to the trolls after the Qiraji. It is common misconception to think that bcause one race had an Empire or world spanning civilization earliest means that they were the first sentinet beings around. It doens't, it just means they were the first to form an Empire.


Now a piece of Tirvia in the story section: Now this plays into the in-character debate.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/troll/trollsandnightelves.html

---

Q u o t e:
Little is known about the night elves' precise origins, for their race was formed so long ago that no hard evidence has surfaced to prove or invalidate this theory. All that is known for certain is that a tribe of nocturnal humanoids came to live on the shores of the first Well of Eternity, and the Well's cosmic energies changed them into the night elves we know today.

Certainly many trolls do believe that the humanoids who developed into the night elf race were trolls. The theory does have some credibility, for there is at least a superficial physical resemblance between trolls and night elves. Furthermore, the troll race dominated much of ancient Kalimdor--the only continent on Azeroth before the Great Sundering--long before the night elves came into power.

Nevertheless, many night elves find this theory preposterous and abhorrent. They are quick to point out that the first night elves began their rise to power by defeating a number of nearby troll tribes. As a consequence, the trolls came to fear and respect the might of their new rivals. The troll theory of night elf ancestry may have been a direct result of this early conflict. The trolls hated the night elves--a sentiment that persists to this day--and may have wished to marginalize the night elf race and its accomplishments. Also, attributing the night elf race with a troll heritage likely helped the trolls come to terms with their own shocking defeat.

Without additional data, there is little point in debating the merits of this controversial theory. No doubt it will remain a matter of contention for years to come.

---

So many tolls [not all] believe that trolls became Night Elves, because of some physical resemblance i.e. height and a similar lean, lithe build. That is where the physical similarities end, and because the Troll race dominated Kalimdor long before the Night Elves came into power. Again which is because the night elves were not an Empire building race till they started maniuplating Well's Energy.

Conclusions
1. The first sentient humanoids were Night Elves at such ancient times, as time developed, Trolls came to be and multiplied forming an empire. It would appear that Elves were the only beings around similar to Trolls in general appearance, so the Trolls may just have assumed they were another tribe of trolls with fangs instead of Tusks, The reason they did that was because the other sentient beings looked remarkably different, insectoid Azj'Aqir and Bull men Tauren, Elves and Trolls have far more in common physical wise than they do with either of those other two ancient races.

2. ELves do come from Trolls, but it is the oldest kind of Troll, which is actually more an Elf than a troll, that got to the well of eternity. One group developed into Trolls over time, the other into Elves.

3. The two are related, and have a common ancestor that is more Elf than troll, one developed into what is known as modern day Elves and the other into modern day Trolls

I conclude, that Trolls and Elves are entirely different species. Elves were likely mistaken to be Trolls due to them being the only beings remotely close to trolls. I.e. long ears, lithe bodies, not furry like taurens, digits philanges instead of hooves, even though Trolls have 2 toes and 3 fingers instead of 5 and 5. However do bear in mind that they were other species of trolls with some physical differences .. so Trolls saw Elves as Trolls with fangs instead of Tusks and 5 fingered hands and feet. But both have eyes and noes and mouths and no horns or animal like faces like Tauren and no 6 limbs like the insectoid Azj'aqir. Skin instead of fur.

It could be that Elves travelling amongst trolls referred to themselves as a different type of troll to make things easier when relating to that race. This would have been before the troll empire split off course which may lead to the troll mis-conception. Just like all human like sentient beings are referred to as humanoids after the most prolific populated race, i.e. humans, it could be so that in those days ll snetient beings were named after the most prolific race at the time, Trolls. So all were trolls by nomenclature.

The Elven rise to power began by the defeat of nearby Troll tirbes, probably the only nocturnal troll tribe, the dark trolls, it was then they began to take note of the Elves and began to fear and repsect them. At the end of the day, the Romans were around LONG before they started building the Empire they did, which according to our history started with the defeat of nearby tribes. But just because the Macedonian, Persian, Egyptian and Sumerian Empires had preceeded it to up to 7,000 years does not mean that the people who came to hold the largest Empire the world has known were not around.

Just because the Trolls had an Empire 16,000 years ago, does not mean that Elves did not exist even before they did. It just means they weren't empire building till a bit later than that. We do not know when that was, but it was likely anything from 12,000 to 15,000 years ago. For the Night Elf empire to reach the stage it had been when the Sundering occured, it would have had to be around for at least one to two thousand years. Especially seeing that being eternals i don't think they'd have rushed things like humans did.

Night Elf ruins spin out from Central Kalimdor (when the world was one continent) and spread west, and north gneerally. Whiles you find troll ruins to the East of the central Kalimdor, and in the South East, with newer ruins going to the North East, which is the direction the Amani would have gone after the sundering. and where Trolls meet Elves again, nearly 4k years after the sundering,and likely about 7j years after that initial conflict.

The article tells us that they didn't take long in defeating the trolls, but it takes long in building an Empire the war i estimate was probably about 14k years ago Night elf terriotory never expanded to the east or the south east, which means they didn't annhilate the trolsl, which probalby means that the trolls combined forces and fought them somewhere in central Kalimdor. I do not think the night elves would have been able to do much expanding to teh west beofre defeating the trolls, although it is quite possilbe.

The ancient world is an old place, the battle of the Qiraji could have taken place in the eastern half of the world, and on their dividing one half fled to the deserts in teh south and the other to the North.

I don't think the trolls fully explored the entire world either. Take our world, i t has taken almost 12,000 years of known human history from the dawn of human civilization to about 1500 a.d. for the world to be fully explored. Although humans aren't our fictional trolls, it can be safe to assume that between the split of the zandalar tirbe 16,000 years ago, and the sundering 10,000 years ago, neither race of troll nor elf would have explored the entire world.

It is quite possible the Trolls never encountered the Elves till they started pushing further west in expansion and rustled the nest of night elves.. and their "discovery" of night elves off course they may have just referred to them as a different type of troll hence the current misconception night elves are from trolls which is not really a transformation fact but more a nomenclature confusion. Or the trolls just simply lie about that.

there is no conclusive evidence to show teh truth of the arguement but examining lore accounts of the Tauren, Cenarius himself being borne of Elune and Marlone, and also the Night Elves believe as their original progenitor, is enough to conclude, you bet the Elves were around first. But question is, exactly in what way.

nice. it is possible that Trolls did encounter Elves as the Zandalar, but this was before trolls started keeping records, afterall it would have been one of the 2 troll empires, either Amani or Gurubashi, I suspect it would have been Amani, since they are closer to the original location of the well of eternity and the Night Elves,than the Gurubashi. So the Amani would have first encountered a mobislized Elven force, undoubtedly this generation of troll's thousands of years and generations down the line from the original Zandalar, would have no re-collection of such encounter, would "discover" the elves, and loosely refer to them as trolls due to them being be only slightly different in appearance to trolls when compared to insects and hairy bull men or stone skinned earthen.

However I don't see why people quite easily believe the Troll account of Elven origin and not the Elven account, but quite readily accpet the Tauren account of their own origin, the Tauren account does support the Elven account. Night Elves created by Elune, and as someone pointed out don't forget Elune is quite real, afterall she does mate with a stag to produce Cenarius.

The mystery is where the TROLLS come from. Trolls are the vilest enemy on Azeroth. They have fought EVERY single race. QIraji, Nerubians, Elves, Tauren, Human, Dwarves, Gnomes, they are described as having a seething HATRED for all races. They are characterised by very negative adjectives, such as malicious, vile, cruel, savage - indulge in voodoo (a black magic art often used to manipulate people against their will), indulge in humanoid sacrifice and cannibalism.

1. Could it be that the Trolls are Elves that have been originally twisted by the old gods?
2. Or could the trolls have been created from their primitive pantheon of gods they worship, the darkest of which Hakkar, they eventually tried to summon only a few millenia after the sundering took place.

I think the Trolls were empowered by the bunch of gods they worshipped, although I wouldn't be surprised if blizzard turn round and reveal some tragedy in Elven history that spawned the existence of Trolls, like the old gods kidnapping Elves and experimenting with them and torutr]ng them. Eventually after their defeat, the trolls are left alone, but now are driven by thirst for power, conquest and knowledge, and thus rise to form an empire. Discover that the Azj'Aqir are now been manipulated by the old gods, and seek revenge by trying to destroy them, as the old gods attmept to use the Azj'aqir to reclaim the world and set in motion their darkplans to undo the titans creations and claim revenge over the beings that defeated them.

---

Q u o t e:
2. ELves do come from Trolls, but it is the oldest kind of Troll, which is actually more an Elf than a troll, that got to the well of eternity. One group developed into Trolls over time, the other into Elves.

3. The two are related, and have a common ancestor that is more Elf than troll, one developed into what is known as modern day Elves and the other into modern day Trolls

---

Are you saying that the Zandalar are more like elves than they are like trolls?

---

Q u o t e:
not furry like taurens.
Skin instead of fur.

---

Trolls have fur.

---

Q u o t e:
Trolls are the vilest enemy on Azeroth

---

Suuuuuure

PS: I like how you call the them "enemy" instead of "race"

---

Q u o t e:
1. Could it be that the Trolls are Elves that have been originally twisted by the old gods?

---

Isnt that how the Orcs are created in Lord of the rings? Elves who have been tortured and twisted?

---

Q u o t e:


NO!! NO!! NO!!

Tolkien ran with that theory for a while only! But soon he became dissatisfied with it, and then wrote down that the Orcs are corrupted Maia, animals and creatures of the earth that Melkor corrupted with his evil, and clay given life by evil magic!! My... this seems quite redundant, but you get the *#*#ing point right?

---

yes i get the point.


sorry

---

Q u o t e:


NO!! NO!! NO!!

Tolkien ran with that theory for a while only! But soon he became dissatisfied with it, and then wrote down that the Orcs are corrupted Maia, animals and creatures of the earth that Melkor corrupted with his evil, and clay given life by evil magic!! My... this seems quite redundant, but you get the *#*#ing point right?

---

Sorry...

WHAT?!

Why in seven hells would Melkor have dumped the power of Maia down to that of an orc?

Just where did you get that from?

There is actually a troll village in the night elven area of Darkshore. When you are flying from Moonglade to Darkshore you can see a village of trolls who seem to do nothing to dance. Odd, but since we cannot communicate with them, we know little about them. A mysterious, and seemingly pointless, implementation by Blizzard.

There were also trolls on the island that is now the capital of the Goblins. The goblins found a mysterious gem on the island that gave them intelligence and ultimately lead to them overthrowing the trolls. Kaja'mite, a mineral that affects the mind. Similar to the Bloodstones and Saronite. Possibly another creation of Yogg-Saron or an Old God?

The origins of life on Azeroth when it comes to who was first do seem to be contradictory.

I suppose if we go for who were the first life forms on Azeroth with all the recent lore we have to say it was the Old Gods, then the Elementals, then the Titans and then the various stone/metal seed races. I find it highly doubtful that the Elves and Trolls were about before the Titans arrived, but I have nothing to back that up.

My theory is that the Elves are the result of the curse of flesh on one as yet unknown seed race. Maybe the Trolls came from the same seed race and split due to soem corruption of sorts, or maybe the Elves split due to corruption, who knows. Or, and this for me is most likely the Trolls are another form of Trogg as in a first attempt at creation of a seed race that went wrong due to interferance from the Old Gods.

I dont have a clue where Elune comes into it all though, it is all very confusing in that regard. It is possible Elune and Freya of the Titans are one in the same, or Elune is another Titan, or Naaru, or even a benevolent Old God? though that is highly unlikely.