first :O

Not that great changes so far, Piercing shot won't be great for PvP because it prevents the use of freezing traps (unless you'll implement back the "Break after certain amount of damage" Freezing Trap we were promised during beta), it would be nicer if it dealth 30% more damage after 1,5 secs

Sniper Training would be as situational as it is now, if not worse, i think it should give the bonus after 3 seconds and last 6 seconds after you move

And even worse The Beastmastery one...that's not the way to fix that 51pts talent, exotic pets should be baseline imho (even because it's not that great) and beastmastery needs to be completely reworked

Those changes are very poor compared with other classes...

lol bleed for mm hunter :/

i love this! no arrows/bullet! :D i allways forget^^

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Q u o t e:
Those changes are very poor compared with other classes...

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Wel...

Good thing that ammo will be out (more amazon style from Diablo2)

This thing with BM... well... such as one said above this is not the way BM should work.

Also... as someone said above... our changes are poor compared to others.

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Q u o t e:
Those changes are very poor compared with other classes...

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also love the no ammo
what happens to pouches and quivers ?


edit :

something to help against DK get pulled al over the map cant even range dps

ammunition change is great, we have waited for it for a long time, i like the new sniper training, no more out of the range issue for some buffs but i think 6 secs is a bit long, a step wise increase in bonus damage can be more beneficial and useful for many encounters, e.g for 3/3 sniper training %1 damage bonus for every second u stand still stacking up to 6 times, or %2 damage bonus for every 2 seconds you stand still stacking up to 3 times, stand still 4 seconds get %4 damage increase vs... otherwise for some encounters like sartharion, we might end up with no bonus damage from sniper training.

Yep, the changes are poor compared to others, hope there is more to come...

I really like the ammo change, just hope they wont forget to adjust the damage lost from bullets / arrows not just haste..

Edit: and agree to the post abowe, 6 secons is alot during some fights <<

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ammunition change is great, we have waited for it for a long time, i like the new sniper training, no more out of the range issue for some buffs but i think 6 secs is a bit long, a step wise increase in bonus damage can be more beneficial and useful for many encounters, e.g for 3/3 sniper training %1 damage bonus for every second u stand still stacking up to 6 times, or %2 damage bonus for every 2 seconds you stand still stacking up to 3 times, stand still 4 seconds get %4 damage increase vs... otherwise for some encounters like sartharion, we might end up with no bonus damage from sniper training.

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agree maybe standing still in my kiting for 4 secs

it wont reward so good at 6 seconds even instance have to walk to stay in range or get out of AoE

Removed the ammo.. Well by the looks of it in my opinion hunters are getting slowly way easy/boring.
I liked that teh character had some sort of things you had to look after, like buying your ammo and food for your pet.
Now i don't need to do any of those, it takes a bit away to the feel of a hunter if you ask me.
People now can just become more brain dead, not needing to think about anything but only to drool and moan about epics.

So please leave the ammo in, it just belongs to a hunter, and ads to the hunter feeling. Hunter use things u shoot away, so u need to replenish them.

Maybe give hunters an aditional bag slot, so no bagslots are lost with the equiped quiver/bag (same to locks btw).

The ammo change was something everyone was hoping for since day 2 i think.

Sniper Training should be 3 seconds and last 6 seconds once you move imho

# Consumable ammunition has been removed from the game. Arrows and bullets no longer stack, but are not consumed. Ranged attack speed bonus gained from quivers and ammo bags will be preserved in a different capacity.

This is a great change. All my money was getting drained from using the engineer arrows ^^

# A new tier of hunter pet talents have been added. In particular, this allows Beastmaster hunters to improve their damage per second (DPS) with their 51 point talent.

I like the idea of having a tier extra accessible to BM hunters. Make them unique in more ways then just a different looking pet!

# Hunting Party – this talent has been reduced to 3 ranks and also grants a passive bonus to the hunter.

Will it still be a triggered on crit effect? As it is today I only have 1/5 points in there and still have it up 100% of the time due to the high crit chance on Explosive shot. Ofc the passive bonus might make it worth maxing this one out.

# Piercing Shots – this talent has been changed. Your Aimed, Steady and Chimera Shots cause the target to bleed for 10/20/30% of damage dealt for 8 sec.

I like the idea of this =) However it does not say "on crit" or "chance on hit"? Will thoose shots cause it every time? Cuz then we will have some serious overwriting issues from that talent. SInce we use one of thoose shots every 1.5 sec.

# Sniper Training – this talent has been changed. After standing still for 6 sec, you gain a 2/4/6% damage bonus to Steady, Aimed and Explosive Shot.

[i]I just hope Ulduar bring less tank & spank fights and then this talent will be.......bad mmmkay? Maybe change it to 6% all the time but remove the kill shot crit. That will put it into the 1% extra damage per talent point more or less.


But my biggest concern is still MM mana efficiency. On short fights they do well in damage (top dps).......but are EXTREMELY dependent on a palas judgement and shamans mana totems to be able to not drop to the bottom of the DPS in any fight longer then 2 mins.

Another concern is the cooldown on Aimed shot and Chimera shot. WIth a 10 sec cd it makes it very hard for less skilled players to reach any viable dps. I have seen hunters doin 1-2k less dps cuz of the this. Wait for cd or not?..... I know but very few do it seems. 9 sec cd would be optimal.

Lame.

Poor changes :(
i like the ammunition system... i like see if more changes come soon, new pet talent tree is nice for bm but i think BM must be changed in some way , we are Best Master but our pet take to low stat from her master.... i like tenacity tree im stucked with the gorilla now a very nice pet, but why if i want take stamina or armor for increase my pet armor and stamina i don't found any equipment (mail ) for that? i can take pvp oriented equip ( best stam and ar ), i know hunter not are tank but .... in this case why you create the tenacity tree ? only for leveling? i like see my pet tanking HC or off-tanking some Raid content but with the current system my pet can't make this i know i have only a hunter 74 but i have played and equipped another one with a friend and our pet is too easy to kill.


60% stam
100% Hit
100% Crit
45% AR

these are the best stat for the pet

then ... i hope see soon other changes



p.s. Sorry for my bad english but im italian

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Removed the ammo.. Well by the looks of it in my opinion hunters are getting slowly way easy/boring.
I liked that teh character had some sort of things you had to look after, like buying your ammo and food for your pet.
Now i don't need to do any of those, it takes a bit away to the feel of a hunter if you ask me.
People now can just become more brain dead, not needing to think about anything but only to drool and moan about epics.

So please leave the ammo in, it just belongs to a hunter, and ads to the hunter feeling. Hunter use things u shoot away, so u need to replenish them.

Maybe give hunters an aditional bag slot, so no bagslots are lost with the equiped quiver/bag (same to locks btw).

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i like this idea even more make arrows less expensive add and extra bag slot
i like looking after my arrows gives something extra
taking care of my pet its the whole hunter idea thats why i chose my class

with consumeable ammo out of the picture, it would be nice to see some ammo with stats on it like armor penetration or something

Im more into the arena thingy and one really big concern is MM's mana efficiency.. I mean yes it works if I go Viper sting>Chimerian but that will decrease my dps loads, so its not a viable specc for arenas atleast.

Also considering the Piercing Shoot talents (any Dot actually), we have some nice CC skills Frozen Arrow and Sleeping sting BUT I have experienced that all of them kinda fail, Since you prolly drain the healer and while having the sting up you cant trap or CC him, so it would help ALOT if our traps could overwrite our dots or sumthing, since we do have a 30sec CD so its not like the mages sheepspamming or warlocks chain fearing.

One more thing is that you should maybe remake "master's calls" ? A 1min CD is waaay too long, I mean having a warrior dpsing you and chasing a healer, these things are kinda impossible when slowed all the time. (or atleast increase its duration)

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# Consumable ammunition has been removed from the game. Arrows and bullets no longer stack, but are not consumed. Ranged attack speed bonus gained from quivers and ammo bags will be preserved in a different capacity.

# A new tier of hunter pet talents have been added. In particular, this allows Beastmaster hunters to improve their damage per second (DPS) with their 51 point talent.

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Hum... so how will ammo work? it no longer stacks, it apparently has been removed from the game, so then the need for ammo pouches and quivers occupying a bag slot is gone also? will they take the form of a trinket? has anew gear slot been added?

Will ammo work like the throwable items? I.E it will loose durability and cost gold for repairs to restore the said ammo that is "spent"? If so, how much durability will be lost per shot? how much durability will said ammo have?

What happens to the engineered crafted ammo?

Will there be rare or epic ammo drops from bosses such as were found in some TBC instances or Vanilla raids? How will the drop rate - if that is what will happen - affect the only truly ammo dependant DPS class in the game?.

[Edit] Forgot to add one thing, will the new ammo-less system allow perhaps for different types of ammo for different purposes? i.e: Shrapnel ammo ( used for aoe combat for instance which would in turn replace the now usless and rather weak volley and multi ), Poisoned ammo, etc.

The new 51 points BM talent opens this new pet talent tier and without it, hunters cannot use those talents?. Also does this mean that a BM controlled and trained pet will do a lot more damage ( hence more DPS ) than a normal one regardless of the type of pet?

Will this work solely with exotic pets? It would make sense that it did that only with those, to set the Beastmaster completely appart from other hunters, which would in turn fit with the idea anyone gets from the term Beastmaster ( a.k.a Master of Beasts ), which is something along the lines of a gladiator trainer but instead trains beasts for combat on his behalf rather than use long raged combat.

The rest of the changes dotn sound too bad but they also do not sound too exciting to be honest. The bleed effect.... will it really do enough damage to help DPS? current bleed effects seem rather weak for the idea they transmit of what they are supposedly designed to do ( see rake from pets as an example of this )..

The "need to stand still for 6 seconds" for piercing shot... this will not work in many stiuations due to raid bosses which require constant movement such as Grobbulus, Gluth, Archavon.

The hunter has to move fast from place to place and thus will be spending talent points which might be more worthwhile in DPS terms than the Piercing Shots talent.

In the end looks like a talent ot be taken only for case speciifc fights such as Patchwerk, Noth, Maexxena. Is this what the developers have in mid for the use of the talent? is it a "take only if needed for the fight" talent?.

Anyhow, Id love to see some blue replies to these questions.

As for the whole package, its not a bad one and finally begins to show some much needed interest on behalf of the developers on the hunter class.

Thanks for the effort guys.