Id want answer why the cunning pet tree is so horrible and all the talents are totally useless in PVP what the tree is aimed for.

When will we get different tiers for different hunter specs?

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Q u o t e:

What we have said before was that players tend to look at relative numbers while we look at absolute numbers. All the players saying "SV is not too high" justify that by saying "because I am not topping the meters." And in some cases, SV is topping the meters. :)

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First off thanks for making this thread, Vaneras. Please feel free to add more information when it becomes available. Imho this thread should be stickied, and GC's answers pertaining to the Hunter class, should be added/relayed herein. Not everyone reads the US Forums.

Now, with all due respect GC, I feel that something is amiss here.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/6/0/3

This is a list of the top 20 dps'ers from all over the world in Naxx 25 boss encounters.

Not only will you not see a Hunter topping any of these encounters, but there are abt sixteen Hunters overall in the midst of 340 (three hundred and fourty) spots.

I am thus led to conclude, GC, that:

a. The Beast Mastery nerf was un-necessary.
b. The Explosive Shot hotfix was un-necessary.
c. Although still theoretically a class with top DPS potential, Hunters still are unable to do what they were designed for: Top DPS.

I saw GC saying something to the effect that "If there are classes that do more DPS than you, they will be brought in line".

Now, could you please explain to us mate, exactly how the WoW meters figures posted above are not "absolute" but "relative" and what exactly are those "absolute" numbers you are looking at? Thanks a lot in advance.

Edit: Please don't forget us Beast Masters GC. We want our favourite build un-nerfed please. Can we get a date?

Q) When are you going to fix the "minimum range" of kill shot?~
A) Next question.

Q)Why didn't you pay any atention to hunter reports on the ptr, stating the massive dps drop on BM?
A) Next question.

Q)SV is now doing (almost) the same dps that BM was doing... the dps you said was too high. Does that mean SV is also due for a big nerf?
A) Next question.

Q)Blizzard spent god knows how much time redoing the pets to have talent trees and introducing the exotics. Presented this over a period of severall months before WotLK as the "next big thing for hunters". How does Blizzard feel about the fact that the spec that does most damage is one that, not only it can't use the new exotic family, it also uses pets as little more than an acessory?
A) Next question.

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Q u o t e:
I saw GC saying something to the effect that "If there are classes that do more DPS than you, they will be brought in line".

Now, could you please explain to us mate, exactly how the WoW meters figures posted above are not "absolute" but "relative" and what exactly are those "absolute" numbers you are looking at? Thanks a lot in advance.

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Very much like to know how the classes are going to be balanced too:-
-How a facerolling mage can pull off 6k+ dps on a fight like patchwerk and not get their spell coefficients nerfed. This applies to both fire and arcane mages, two talent trees possible of 6k+ dps just seems like a dream to a hunter.
-How an affliction warlock pet (doomguard) can do more dps than a hunter pet whilst the warlock themselves still maintain a level of dps higher than the hunter.

It seems to me as if hunter scaling is the worst of all the classes right now, especially after the explosive shot nerf. Why is it that whenever we get a nerf it's our scaleability rather than the base amount? You realise this hurts us even more, whilst other classes just get stronger and stronger with gear upgrades.

My request is to keep us up to date with proposed changes, just give us a carrot because I find it extremely hard motivating myself to sticking with my hunter and if the scaling doesn't drastically change in patch 3.1 we'll just fall further behind. Still it will be months till we get the content patch so the next few months won't be fun, considering cancelling my account until then

Hi Mr. Vaneras. This thread is only just hypocrisy.
Buff plz mages, rogues, ret pallies and dk-s, and nerf hunters more.

P.S. Waiting for another useful blue from GC, smthin like "hunters concers are concerned by concern, so concern are concering by concern concers".

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Q u o t e:

If there are other classes far ahead of you on the damage meters, chances are good they will see some nerfs to their damage soon too.

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That was posted under hotfix post and if it goes like I think this looks rather good. Hunters are already balanced (just getting BM buff) and now start fixing other classes around it. Lowering raid damage generally is good thing and surely makes bossfight creating easier aswell. When playing enjoyable PvE surely its not just watching damage meters but doing progress and have fun.

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Q u o t e:

Q. You said you are happy with the dps a MM hunter can pull. I have been playing in a competitive raid environment for 4 years and when I spec marks I fall 1000 dps behind ele shams, 800 dps behind the moonkin and 700 dps behind the arcane mages. We also then see you stating that you feel arcane mages are performing well in pve. Do your internal tests have MM hunters and arcane mages near each other or are we reading too much into what you are saying?.
A. What we have said before was that players tend to look at relative numbers while we look at absolute numbers. All the players saying "SV is not too high" justify that by saying "because I am not topping the meters." And in some cases, SV is topping the meters. :)

[/b]

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Maybe i am reading 2 much into this but its sounds like you are saying hunters are not allowed to top meters so you nerf ES?, say no more GC pretty clear to me the future of hunters now.

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Q u o t e:


That was posted under hotfix post and if it goes like I think this looks rather good. Hunters are already balanced (just getting BM buff) and now start fixing other classes around it. Lowering raid damage generally is good thing and surely makes bossfight creating easier aswell. When playing enjoyable PvE surely its not just watching damage meters but doing progress and have fun.

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It would be fun if raid instances are any challenge right now, you can successfully pug 25 man naxx and sarth. But let's not go there in this thread, that's another issue entirely that Blizzard have failed on. One of the factors that make it fun for myself in raids is competing and improving my character and playstyle, it's not fun at all when you reach a certain level of skill and see other classes whopping your ass so to speak on the meters, especially since I think I've managed to fine tune my shot priorities, which aren't the easiest rotations of all the classes by any means.

Whilst I appreciate the balancing is an ongoing process I wish they wouldn't use the Hunter class as the guinea pigs for which to base the calculations on, I feel cheated. I know it's childish but balance us now, before the patch and quick +(random expletive).I feel even worse for rogues who are supposedly the kings of single target dps being reduced to trash masters.

edit: Another thing, Volley was nerfed, justifiably so imo because we were never supposed to be the best at aoe, the role of which is supposed to fall to warlocks, mages and to a certain degree deathknights. That was the reason Blizzard gave for the Volley nerf. So to see mages and locks again being able to spank you on single target fights with comparitively less effort with their rotations, especially so with mages, just isn't cricket!

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Q u o t e:


First off thanks for making this thread, Vaneras. Please feel free to add more information when it becomes available. Imho this thread should be stickied, and GC's answers pertaining to the Hunter class, should be added/relayed herein. Not everyone reads the US Forums.

Now, with all due respect GC, I feel that something is amiss here.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/6/0/3

This is a list of the top 20 dps'ers from all over the world in Naxx 25 boss encounters.

Not only will you not see a Hunter topping any of these encounters, but there are abt four (4) Hunters overall in the midst of 340 (three hundred and fourty) spots.

I am thus led to conclude, GC, that:

a. The Beast Mastery nerf was un-necessary.
b. The Explosive Shot hotfix was un-necessary.
c. Although still theoretically a class with top DPS potential, Hunters still are unable to do what they were designed for: Top DPS.

I saw GC saying something to the effect that "If there are classes that do more DPS than you, they will be brought in line".

Now, could you please explain to us mate, exactly how the WoW meters figures posted above are not "absolute" but "relative" and what exactly are those "absolute" numbers you are looking at? Thanks a lot in advance.

Edit: Please don't forget us Beast Masters GC. We want our favourite build un-nerfed please. Can we get a date?

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I did like to see a blue here? Well said.

Right, do one thing.. please!
Do NOT nerf Explosive shot too much. Please, it was fine before, just revert back to how it was. PLEASE don't over nerf it. I played SV pre-3.08, and loved it to pieces! I'm sure when everyone has left the SV choochoo train i will revert back to it, just please don't over nerf it ;(.

(bm/surv hybrid ftw xD). - I'm still not sure about it o.o

---

Q u o t e:
First off thanks for making this thread, Vaneras. Please feel free to add more information when it becomes available. Imho this thread should be stickied, and GC's answers pertaining to the Hunter class, should be added/relayed herein. Not everyone reads the US Forums.

Now, with all due respect GC, I feel that something is amiss here.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/6/0/3

This is a list of the top 20 dps'ers from all over the world in Naxx 25 boss encounters.

Not only will you not see a Hunter topping any of these encounters, but there are abt four (4) Hunters overall in the midst of 340 (three hundred and fourty) spots.

I am thus led to conclude, GC, that:

a. The Beast Mastery nerf was un-necessary.
b. The Explosive Shot hotfix was un-necessary.
c. Although still theoretically a class with top DPS potential, Hunters still are unable to do what they were designed for: Top DPS.

I saw GC saying something to the effect that "If there are classes that do more DPS than you, they will be brought in line".

Now, could you please explain to us mate, exactly how the WoW meters figures posted above are not "absolute" but "relative" and what exactly are those "absolute" numbers you are looking at? Thanks a lot in advance.

Edit: Please don't forget us Beast Masters GC. We want our favourite build un-nerfed please. Can we get a date?

---

Those meters are plain evidence in my opinion. I wouldn't call them shocking, we still have a few rly good dps hunters here and there, but it shows that the nerfs were unfair and not needed. Hunters should be on par with every other pure dps classes.

I would like to see Vaneras reply on this post and answer the questions from the above quotes poster. What went wrong with testing?

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Q u o t e:


Those meters are plain evidence in my opinion. I wouldn't call them shocking, we still have a few rly good dps hunters here and there, but it shows that the nerfs were unfair and not needed. Hunters should be on par with every other pure dps classes.

I would like to see Vaneras reply on this post and answer the questions from the above quotes poster. What went wrong with testing?

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The thing is here, u won't see him post... Cuase we're right, he have nothing to say, so he'll be silent.

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Q u o t e:

Now, with all due respect GC, I feel that something is amiss here.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/6/0/3

This is a list of the top 20 dps'ers from all over the world in Naxx 25 boss encounters.

Not only will you not see a Hunter topping any of these encounters, but there are abt four (4) Hunters overall in the midst of 340 (three hundred and fourty) spots.

---

Vaneras,

Many thanks for letting us know what GC is saying.

Please kindly convey the following questions to the said person - if that is possible - :

TOP 360 DPS as linked above on Naxx 25 Boss Fights contains 4 or 5 hunters, none of which are in the Top 1 spot, and the highest ranked is 6th on a single fight.

All of the said hunters are Survival specced, no other tree is present.

These figures are world-wide, and gathered from in-game live parses as recorded by your own software ( /combatlog ).

Thus, could you please, kindly explain to us all, just exactly how the WoW meter figures posted above are not "absolute" but "relative"?.

Could you please explain why, if you can create zones of content visible only to X, Y, Z players who have completed A, B, or C quest chains, you cannot create in the same manner the needed changes to spell and ability behaviours that work solely, separately, and differently for the PvE and PvP content?.

Thank you in advance.

---

Q u o t e:
Hi everybody :-)

The developers have answered a few Hunter related questions. Some of you may have seen this already somewhere else, but in case you have not, you can find it below:

Q. You said you are happy with the dps a MM hunter can pull. I have been playing in a competitive raid environment for 4 years and when I spec marks I fall 1000 dps behind ele shams, 800 dps behind the moonkin and 700 dps behind the arcane mages. We also then see you stating that you feel arcane mages are performing well in pve. Do your internal tests have MM hunters and arcane mages near each other or are we reading too much into what you are saying?.
A. What we have said before was that players tend to look at relative numbers while we look at absolute numbers. All the players saying "SV is not too high" justify that by saying "because I am not topping the meters." And in some cases, SV is topping the meters. :)


Q. You want all ferocity pets to feel viable in PVE but pets like wasps, wolves, tall striders and carrion birds have utility specials instead of damage specials. The only way I can see balancing the pets would be to give them 2 unique specials, one utility and one damage oriented. What ideas have been brainstormed at the table?
A. There is a trade-off between damage and utility. We specifically gave some hunter pets raid buff / debuff options in case your group, esp. a 5 or 10-player group, has trouble having access to that bonus. We have seen a lot of wasps out there lately.

But as we have also said, more parity among pets is something we want to pursue. Currently most of the hunter discussions on the forums are about SV-MM-BM differences or PvP however.


Q. 41 point survival talent was due for a buff coming out of beta but we have seen no further discussion on it; last patch it even received a nerf! What are your plans for this?
A. We hope to be able to announce some 3.1 changes soon. (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=7913091638&sid=1)


Q. MM is still crippled by Chimera shots ~580 mana cost. Any chance we could see some arcane shot glyph inspired solutions to this? Possibly make rapid recuperation like shamanistic rage?
A. We will be adding more glyphs over time, especially for newer abilities. We didn't want to add them all right away for fear that players would just assume the glyphed version of the spell was the way the spell worked rather than realizing what a benefit the glyph itself brought. If that makes sense.

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Let's be honest against each other.
So what we have here:

1. WoW is now a game for children and casual people, all content of PvE is too easy, PvP is just about your setup and any faceroller with a good setup can constantly win any game.
2. Skill and effort is out of this game. Now being a good or bad player don't realy make such a big difference anymore, coordination and timing is not needed in PvP or PvE.
3. Under these circumstances, some classes are viable for these new retardidness of WoW and some are not. For example, hunters are still a class where you can't be a <50 IQ guy and win. (2xBW was stupid i admit and every hunter knows that.)
4. So hunters are not fitting into your new " Mortal Combat" style of playing. You simply don't want people to play hunters or warlocks or any other classes which can't simply click an instant spell 2 times and win.
5. You're losing all your hunter community with all your stupid ideas or excuses. You ruined this game, and you ruined hunter class just more. Now you can go hug your crybaby mages , rogues and retpalas and say them "ok hunters are leaving the game, no worries anymore."

---

Q u o t e:
Hi everybody :-)

The developers have answered a few Hunter related questions. Some of you may have seen this already somewhere else, but in case you have not, you can find it below:

Q. You said you are happy with the dps a MM hunter can pull. I have been playing in a competitive raid environment for 4 years and when I spec marks I fall 1000 dps behind ele shams, 800 dps behind the moonkin and 700 dps behind the arcane mages. We also then see you stating that you feel arcane mages are performing well in pve. Do your internal tests have MM hunters and arcane mages near each other or are we reading too much into what you are saying?.
A. What we have said before was that players tend to look at relative numbers while we look at absolute numbers. All the players saying "SV is not too high" justify that by saying "because I am not topping the meters." And in some cases, SV is topping the meters. :)

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Thats bull%!## answer, pardon my french. Whats relative about WWS report where mages/shamans/fury warriors are way ahead of SV hunters (pre hotfix)? Or you at blizzard think that your tooltips are absolute numbers? This is a social game, revolving around usefulness of a character in guild and raid environment, and around damage and survavibility in arena settings, and in both those environments, hunters are failing. How is that relative and not important?

People in this thread crying really have no clue...

Going "I r rerolling lolz kkthx bai QQ ffs nerfz"

Helps no one, deal with it, ES was over the top anyhow.