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Q u o t e:
And now for the ultimate kick in the balls. Proc Per Minute calculations are now done at CURRENT weapon speed, not the normal speed of the weapon. What this means is that additional haste will not allow for more procs. For instance let's look at the Mongoose enchant, which is 2ppm. In our current melee system the % of attacks at normal speed would carry over when hasted with slice n dice, blade flurry, DST, Heroism, etc. giving us a much higher chance to proc the buff because we would be attacking a lot more often. With this change the % to proc goes DOWN when our haste goes UP.

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o my god.
this his so huge, really i cannot understand how is possible they are making this.

let's do some math.

mongoose proc per minute 2

with a 2.6 weapon you will have : 8,6667 % of proc of moongose for every attack on our white attack
and our sinister strike will proc 8,6667%

using slice and dice weapon speed will change, white attack's proc per minute will remain the same (2 * (%to hit)) instead of the old (2*(% to hit)*1,3) (so losing 30% procs from white attacks)
and our sinister strike will proc only at 6,6667%

so with slice and dice we are loosing 30% procs on white attacks and remain at the same proc rate as we are not using it, but we are losing 30% procs from sinister strike.
so Slice and dice = less procs, not only for moongoose but for every proc item you have.

the more haste rating you use, with eq or with the blacksmith mace and the less you will proc everithing fron SS.

it's really huge.
what they are doing ?

Don't scare the people with misleading titles mister :)

This isn't a nerf to SnD. For general purpose, SnD remains unchanged. Procs per Minute however, are getting nerfed. At least, the way they interact with Haste effects.

SnD isn't the same as the Haste effect for what's it's worth. From what I've gathered Haste actually alters a weapon's speed, whereas SnD alters general melee attack speed. Now I don't know exactly how this differs, but some of the experts say there's is a difference. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

But yeah, using Haste effects and SnD will no longer benefit Mongoose procs for example.
So let's keep it at "Haste effect on Procs Per Minute huge nerf coming".

Haste effects stack additive, while SnD stacks muliplative with that again, or so I was explained, never really bothered to look into it though :)

reading elitist jerks tests on ptr, it will affect slice and dice too.
elitist jerks is the best theoricrafting site around.

look at it: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t15553-proc_per_minute_mechanics_haste

so with slice and dice reducing proc's in my opinion it's a nerf to slice and dice.

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Q u o t e:
Edit: The original explanation above was rather confusing, sorry. See post 8 for clarification. In summary: Real PPM (total procs / time in combat) remains constant, regardless of any haste effects active.

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Now shut up and stop startling people. That way. ->

is what i'm saying.

before 2.2 patch:

with slice and dice active you will have more procs

post 2.2 patch:

with slice and dice active you will have less procs

No, you're totally wrong here, percentual procs stay the same, PPM's stay the same.

What he wrote about, was just writing out the obvious.

You do know what PPM means?

the nerf means that monguse will stay at 2 procs per minuite as intended by the whole PPM ( proc per min )



no matter how fast you hit you will get 2 monguse procs per min.


ON HIT effects with no INTERNAL COOLDOWN ( for instance combat potency ) will remain the same.

So stop craying

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Q u o t e:
the nerf means that monguse will stay at 2 procs per minuite as intended by the whole PPM ( proc per min )



no matter how fast you hit you will get 2 monguse procs per min.


ON HIT effects with no INTERNAL COOLDOWN ( for instance combat potency ) will remain the same.

So stop craying

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You hit the spot, even if you say it with a bit different color.

As said, everything will work just as they should, if there has been a misscalculation causing too many procs, this is a fix.

I don't believe there has been such, thus it shouldn't matter at all.


And once again, the conclusion, amount of procs remains constant, as intended.
There is no nerf, there is nothing to be cried about.

The MVP better be right about this.

I understand what you are saying. But it wouldn't surprise me if they are doing a change anyway.
You MVP's/CM's have been wrong before - for example you all said that Vanish was WAI, and now on the PTR there is a hotfix for pets chasing you after vanish.

Im sceptic for a reason.

If you wouldn't mind.

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Q u o t e:
In the middle of all the whining, this...

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Q u o t e:

Pets will no longer chase players that Vanish.

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As I've said several times, this is not a problem of Vanish, it's a problem of the AI of the mobs (pets).
So that human male rogue with the ridiculous signature can go on the corner and emo some more.

Oh, and the GM's were correct, they're fixing the pets, there's nothing to be fixed in Vanish.

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And I'm directly quoting myself from another thread.

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Q u o t e:
You do realise I'm just a player and NOT an employee of Blizzard right?

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But u has colorz and special avatar! R u hax??11!?1




No, they don't realise.

Eh... that EJ thread contains:

a) tests on the PTR that indicate that ON THE PTR haste reduces the proc chance/hit on your autoattacks to keep the actual number of autoattack procs per minute constant.

b) a test on LIVE that indicates that this is not the case atm.

c) a test comparing PTR and live data with a result that is in contradiction with b)

While a) gives plenty of data to indicate the workings of ppm on the PTR, the conclusion on how this works on the live realms seems still wide open and warrants more testing.

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Q u o t e:
Eh... that EJ thread contains:

a) tests on the PTR that indicate that ON THE PTR haste reduces the proc chance/hit on your autoattacks to keep the actual number of autoattack procs per minute constant.

b) a test on LIVE that indicates that this is not the case atm.

c) a test comparing PTR and live data with a result that is in contradiction with b)

While a) gives plenty of data to indicate the workings of ppm on the PTR, the conclusion on how this works on the live realms seems still wide open and warrants more testing.

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I'd love to see a blue post some confirmations on this stuff also.

The amount of nerfs thrown towards anything melee is getting ridiculous, this would basically be the last straw. When does it stop? I just hope it's not true...

/edit/

after reading tru the EJ thread again, after some new posts appeared I might have to adjust my conclusion. It seems there were some errors in the test sample, so let's hope it was just someone shooting blanks.

As far as I can see in this matter.

PPMs will stay the same no matter how much haste you have.
Mongoose 2PPM with standard swing speed and still a 2 PPM if you hasted your swingtime with 50%.
Of course this will lower the procchance on each individual swing as you will be swinging a helluva lot more times in one minute hasted, however Mongoose will still proc 2PPM.

Theorise that you swing 10 times in 1 minute, Mongoose will proc each 5 swings.
Hasten that by the double to swing 20 times in 1 minute, Mongoose will proc each 10 swings.

Hold your horses, this is in no way confirmed yet and in fact later testing seems to contradict it.