This is addressed to GC about a Deep Wounds bug. Deeps wounds currently gets double benefit from % damage increase abilities.

I did a small test to verify this. I specced like so:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/warrior/talents.html?tal=320023012330000000000000000000325000005500312053120501351000000000000000000000000000

I equipped only a single 2h so that I do not get more than 1 crit on the target dummy. So I hit the dummy until I get one crit on it. Once a crit lands, I turn around and leave it to tick until it fades. Each tick was for 143 dmg.

Now I pop Death Wish and do the same exact test. The ticks were for 206.

Now 206 is not exactly 20% more than 143. It is 44%.

Where did this 44% come from? It is pretty simple. Deep wounds is double dipping on % increase buffs. It does 20% more damage as a bleed but also the base damage it deal gets a 20% increase since my "weapon damage" deals 20% more. And this is exactly how you get 144% scaling on Deep Wounds with Death Wish. 120% weapon damage multiplied with 120% of Deep Wounds damage, is erm... exactly 144%? :-)

I know you think that Deep Wounds is not bugged and Thaddius or Malugos are not encounters where Deep Wounds is doing a lot of damage and that Deep Wounds is OP. Thaddius and Malygos have % damage increase effects much higher than Death Wish and make Deep Wounds tick for sicks amounts because of this bug. This test was done to make you acknowledge this bug, and then reevaluate your stance on Deep Wounds overpoweredness after this bug is fixed. Because with this bug present any evaluation of if Deep Wounds is overpowered or not, is plain speculation, bad judgement and plain wrong.

To give you another data point, consider a warrior on Malygos with 4 stacks of a spark. 4 stacks of +50% means 150%^4 = 506%. So essentially the warrior has a buff of "increase damage done by 406%". Under these conditions, Deep Wounds gains a total of 506% * 506% = 2562%. This means Deep Wounds get a 2462% increased damage done. This is plain stupid and obviously the primary reason why you think Deep Wounds is overpowered and needs a nerf.

Given the above, I hope you can understand where the bug is, fix it and re-evaluate your position on whether Deep Wounds needs a change (you might find that it needs a buff, or it needs to be given to all warriors as a base ability for example).

Edit: Changed all multipliers to % to be consistent.

Nice post, however:

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Q u o t e:
I repeat: Deep Wounds is not a Thaddius / Loatheb issue. You can stop saying that now. :)

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http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14287349231&sid=1&pageNo=20#389


I guess that includes every boss with damage boost so GC thinks DW as it's now is not what they want it to be.

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Q u o t e:
Nice post, however:




http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14287349231&sid=1&pageNo=20#389


I guess that includes every boss with damage boost so GC thinks DW as it's now is not what they want it to be.

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This is exactly why I made this post. GC never acknowledged the double dipping bug for Deep Wounds. He only posts (arrogantly) that they know how things work since they designed them. Male cow's droppings. Did they knowingly design Malygos to give Deep Wounds a 2662% modifier? Did they knowingly design Thaddius to give Deep Wounds a 384% modifier (assuming 12 stacks)?

If that's the case then I rest mine as well :-)

Deep Wound and double dipping is not new things .... but if Blizz will nerf DWound everyone again will reject warrios as most useless DPS class. Just like it was in vanila wow and BC.

Its like --->
RL - ''we need 1 dps in OS with 3add''
Warrior - ''invite"
RL - "Reroll man"

I don't really see what the huge problem is. So you're topping off DPS meters on Malygos, Loatheb and Thadi. Not a lot of other encounters where this is a problem and certainly doesnt present a problem in PvP.

Normalising it won't happen, since it's not a big issue.

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Q u o t e:
Deep Wound and double dipping is not new things .... but if Blizz will nerf DWound everyone again will reject warrios as most useless DPS class. Just like it was in vanila wow and BC.

Its like --->
RL - ''we need 1 dps in OS with 3add''
Warrior - ''invite"
RL - "Reroll man"

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Warriors were never rejected from groups...

I was a fury warrior for the whole of vanilla and BC...we never sucked and i dont think i was ever rejected.

Particularly in vanilla we were well respected.

Val.

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Q u o t e:
I don't really see what the huge problem is. So you're topping off DPS meters on Malygos, Loatheb and Thadi. Not a lot of other encounters where this is a problem and certainly doesnt present a problem in PvP.

Normalising it won't happen, since it's not a big issue.

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The double dipping of Deep Wounds makes them stronger than they are in the presence of damage multipliers. All warrior trees have them irrespective of if the encounter has damage multipliers or not. Arms has Wrecking Crew, Fury has Death Wish and Protection has Improved Defensive Stance.

There is a decision to nerf Deep Wounds. All of the above make Deep Wounds stronger than it really is. So the big issue is that the devs are going to nerf things too much if this bug is not fixed first and the performance of the fixed Deep Wounds is evaluated before the nerf.

arent you overthinking things and all their talking isabout fixing thebug you discovered?

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Q u o t e:
I don't really see what the huge problem is. So you're topping off DPS meters on Malygos, Loatheb and Thadi. Not a lot of other encounters where this is a problem and certainly doesnt present a problem in PvP.

Normalising it won't happen, since it's not a big issue.

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Point is it shows how well DW is scaling with crit and % mods. As we get better and better gear it's going to become very powerful.

may i also add that i have had ticks of 3k on thaddius on hc, and 1k on malygos, both with a feral druid, and me on cooldowns.

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Q u o t e:

To give you another data point, consider a warrior on Malygos with 4 stacks of a spark. 4 stacks of +50% means 150%^4 = 506%. So essentially the warrior has a buff of "increase damage done by 406%". Under these conditions, Deep Wounds gains a total of 506% * 506% = 2562%. This means Deep Wounds get a 2462% increased damage done. This is plain stupid and obviously the primary reason why you think Deep Wounds is overpowered and needs a nerf.

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just wanna correct one thing. 4 stacks of +50% is 200% wich means you get 300% dmg, not 506%.

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Q u o t e:


just wanna correct one thing. 4 stacks of +50% is 200% wich means you get 300% dmg, not 506%.

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I think you are correct. That still left DW with a (300% + 100%) ^ 2 = 1500% damage modifier which was way over the top.

In any case it seems that the original assessment was correct, Deep Wounds wasn't the issue, the bug was. The devs fixed the bug and then decided nerfing Deep Wounds wasn't necessary. If this was the post that made the bug obvious to them we will never know :-)

GC did acknoledge that it was double dipping and he did acknoledge that it was the reason for insane numbers on thaddius and alike. What you quoted is a snippet of a post in which he explains that even if you disregard Thaddius/Malygos- Deep wounds was still doing a really high amount of damage.

This was in response to certain warriors claiming "DW is fine, it only does a lot of damage on Thaddius/Malygos". It may have been doing even more damage on those encounters due to double dipping, but it was doing too much damage outside of those fights aswell.

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Q u o t e:
Deep Wound and double dipping is not new things .... but if Blizz will nerf DWound everyone again will reject warrios as most useless DPS class. Just like it was in vanila wow and BC.

Its like --->
RL - ''we need 1 dps in OS with 3add''
Warrior - ''invite"
RL - "Reroll man"

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wow !
clearly a srzs bzns raid group you are talking about bro

Its like --->
RL - ''we need 1 dps in OS with 3add''
Warrior - ''invite"
RL - "Reroll man"


that is going to happen in 3.1

Arms damage is low

Fury damage is a joke coz of overnerf.

PTR tested: and im feelin temptated pressing the "Create Death knight button"

What makes you think "GC" reads the European forums?