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Q u o t e:


24k HP self buffed? Ok you clearly didnt read again...21k HP UNBUFFED: Now say he was a warrior simply putting up Commanding shout would take him to nearly 24k HP...

So clearly talk on.

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It is funny because I have posted on paladin and also noted in my reply that it was paladin tank I was talking about. Paladin does not have any buff that would add fixed amount of hp .We have %-based BOK (and BOSanc now) scaling with gear. It must be clear even to you that BOK could not compete with Command back then. Even now, I get somewhere around 2.7k hp on top of my 33.7k when using BOK/BOSanc.
Only warriors can self-buffed themselves with significant amount of HP independently of their gear. Paladins have well scaling self-buff. Druids have minor all-round buff and nice mitigation/ehp armor buff. Dks use presence to boost their hp and mitigation, however, one could argue this is not the same category of buff as previously mentioned buffs.
So no, 21k hp selfbuffed was not "best you could do" even at that time. You just took the easy way to blindly aim for crit immunity ignoring other stats while hoping healer can keep you up.

Also, I was not really reacting on the OP, rather than on some of the people posting here after necroing about 21k hp unbuffed tanks being ok now. They are not, and never have been.

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Q u o t e:


It is funny because I have posted on paladin and also noted in my reply that it was paladin tank I was talking about. Paladin does not have any buff that would add fixed amount of hp .We have %-based BOK (and BOSanc now) scaling with gear. It must be clear even to you that BOK could not compete with Command back then. Even now, I get somewhere around 2.7k hp on top of my 33.7k when using BOK/BOSanc.
Only warriors can self-buffed themselves with significant amount of HP independently of their gear. Paladins have well scaling self-buff. Druids have minor all-round buff and nice mitigation/ehp armor buff. Dks use presence to boost their hp and mitigation, however, one could argue this is not the same category of buff as previously mentioned buffs.
So no, 21k hp selfbuffed was not "best you could do" even at that time. You just took the easy way to blindly aim for crit immunity ignoring other stats while hoping healer can keep you up.

Also, I was not really reacting on the OP, rather than on some of the people posting here after necroing about 21k hp unbuffed tanks being ok now. They are not, and never have been.

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Ehm 21k hp was fine while being crit immune. The heroics are all ezmode and they were back then aswell. Only now there is ToC which requires a bit better gear, but then again you can easily get alot better gear now without raiding at all, compared to the start of WotLK.

When I started healing I was in full blue and so was my tank mate. He had around 20-22k selfbuffed back then. We were able to clear all heroics fine. Only thing it took was more than 1 braincell and common sense. Now you just overgear everything bigtime and people raise the bar for gear requirements while it can be cleared with much worse gear.

So yes your point is moot and you don't make any sense.

My first tank was a DK, I cared more back then, and got 3 crafted epics (titansteel destroyer, jc neck, helmet) together with full blues. I had 24k hp unbuffed, 26k in frost presence.

But I thought "hey, DKs were OP back then and I had epics, let's see without those!"
So on this Paladin I deliberately did NOT get any crafted epics, any BoE epics, went to tank heroics in FULL damn blues you can easily get, and no, I didn't have Argent Tournament stuff either, because I was 2-3 days short of dailies to get champion.

Result? I had crappy stuff like the helmet from normal Oculus, UP quest reward chest, Ebon Blade honored rep. boots, Storm Peaks quest reward gloves, shield from normal VH, weapon - mace from Zul'Drak quest!! And again, I had 24.5k hp unbuffed and around 26k with sanctuary. The only thing I bought was the BoE blue belt "Waistguard of the risen knight", because, frankly, there is no other belt to get unless you farm normal Oculus (not the funniest thing to do).

So, if you have under 23k HP and 535 defense - you just aren't trying.
If you still wear boots from nexus quest, level 74 tempered saronite belt, greens, dps rings, any of that stuff, lack enchants and gems - you just didn't put the minimal effort.
There is no way you can fall under 23k HP unbuffed if you just get the level 78-80 blues, enchant and gem it.

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Q u o t e:
So, if you have under 23k HP and 535 defense - you just aren't trying.
If you still wear boots from nexus quest, level 74 tempered saronite belt, greens, dps rings, any of that stuff, lack enchants and gems - you just didn't put the minimal effort.
There is no way you can fall under 23k HP unbuffed if you just get the level 78-80 blues, enchant and gem it.

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This is what I was trying to say, and I obviously failed. Such low hp does not mean you cant do heroics. It just means you are not trying hard enough to get properly geared.
I took the time and spent resources to get more hp back in January 2009 than some "new" tanks promote as "sufficient". These quickly baked tanks than come to forums posting about elitism and how people want the easy way out. In fact, it is them who wants to get carried on my back. To those people, I whole-heartedly say: "screw you!"