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Q u o t e:
- Cycle: 4+n/4+r

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What does the "n" mean?

The "r" is for Rapture right?

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Q u o t e:

What does the "n" mean?

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Envenom. To separate it from Eviscerate.

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Q u o t e:

The "r" is for Rapture right?

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Rupture, I don't think we want to inflict rapture on them.

Cba to read all the posts (so dunno if this has been posted yet)...

Regarding lockpicking: Sholazar > Avalanche is idd a nice place to pickpocket mobs quick for lockboxes.
In Icecrown. theres that small crusader Island to the west, where you can find lots of lockboxes Tyrs hand style... Ofc I only found out when my lp was already maxed (but theyre brown/reddish to me so I assume you get skill points for opening them).
Theres also the door to VH, which can yield a skill point, it is however unknown how long the reset timer is before you can skill up on it again.

As for any rogue grinding/questing etc. I personally have put all my stealth attacks into a macro, so that I pickpocket them before I open, (remember to turn on autoloot in the interface options).

Something like:

#showtooltip cheap shot
/cast pick pocket
/cast cheap shot

A quick way to get a few boxes, cash, health pots, and a lot of junk (but hey it all sells) ;p

I'm still left with this question.. What 2 bta weapons should i send my rogue for best quik lvling ??

I wonder how a 7-51-13 combat spec will do with the 4set bonus of T8.

On the modified sheet of Vulajin it seems too get slightly higher than 15-51-5 and 18-51-2, but it feels like its bugged around the rotations. 5s-5r does more dps than 5s-5r-5e in a normal 15-51-5 spec.
When I fill in 3s-5r it keeps up snd 100% but still shows lower dps when it actually should give slightly higher dps in my opinion.

Also tried out Aldriana's sheet but than it seems that it's slighty lower than the other specs but I see a fail at rotation it can't allow to make a S-R rotation its always tries too make a S-R-E rotation. (Warning: no sustainable rotation)

Could you try out some calculations? I'm pretty bad at calculating.
Maybe it's worth it. if it's good enough you could add it as a spec in your guide.

Mut has the same spec change when they get 4set bonus of T8
They go from 51-13-7 to 51-7-13. maybe something too check out too?
(Found it at the pocket guide on EJ’s)

Hello there fellow rogues,

Do you respect the socked bonuses as + 6 agility and etc. or you prefer to gem everything aside requirements for your metagem with 32 AP or 16 agility for instance?

Comments form someone who has found the time to measure pros and cons of the above are more than welcome.

Thank you in advance.

Just a few fast questions about early (2nd week) raiding
1. Can you give me some spreadsheet that lets you test your dps with different raid buffs because i have nearly none due to bad raid group composition and this may give very incorrect results i guess.
2. What should i do i the (often) situations when i have max energy, 4-5 CPs and rupt has still 2-3 seconds before it expires?
3. Is keeping EA in 10 mans viable when sunder is missing and if yes - what is its prio - higher or lower than rupt? I know that it depends on how much is the physical dps but we usually have a lot of melees so? Also what about 5mans? (Usually when i keep EA and SnD all the time i have about 50-65% rupt uptime but i can use only one envenom per cycle)

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Q u o t e:
1. Can you give me some spreadsheet that lets you test your dps with different raid buffs because i have nearly none due to bad raid group composition and this may give very incorrect results i guess.
2. What should i do i the (often) situations when i have max energy, 4-5 CPs and rupt has still 2-3 seconds before it expires?
3. Is keeping EA in 10 mans viable when sunder is missing and if yes - what is its prio - higher or lower than rupt? I know that it depends on how much is the physical dps but we usually have a lot of melees so? Also what about 5mans? (Usually when i keep EA and SnD all the time i have about 50-65% rupt uptime but i can use only one envenom per cycle)

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1) Vulajin's does this, presuming it's updated (I honestly have no clue whether it is).
2) Overwrite the old Rupture if possible. If not, use your combo point generator.
3) Yes, and higher than rupture. In 5 mans, as long as there's more than two physical DPS on your target, you should be using it on any mob with a decent life expectancy.

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Q u o t e:
On the modified sheet of Vulajin it seems too get slightly higher than 15-51-5 and 18-51-2, but it feels like its bugged around the rotations. 5s-5r does more dps than 5s-5r-5e in a normal 15-51-5 spec.
When I fill in 3s-5r it keeps up snd 100% but still shows lower dps when it actually should give slightly higher dps in my opinion.

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Likely has to do with the amount and power of Sinister Strikes being performed. As long as the MH weapon isn't awesome, uptime on Rupture, S&D, and building your energy budget around those is more important than it is when the MH starts to make a real difference. It's something that was quite visible in TBC, with the T4 S&D bonus, before the PvE weapons got upgraded.

7/51/13 will be in the same ballpark as the other specs - first reflex would be to say the others scale better, but that's without taking into account 3.1 changes around armor penetration, and tbh i haven't found any time to look at this at all.

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Q u o t e:
Do you respect the socked bonuses as + 6 agility and etc. or you prefer to gem everything aside requirements for your metagem with 32 AP or 16 agility for instance?

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"Respect" DPS boni - that means find out whether "non-DPS gem + DPS Bonus" beats "DPS gem + skipping DPS bonus" and gem accordingly. Truth be told, it will be in +/- a few AP worth of DPS; AP being steadier, while agility allows you to get lucky. Either way, the difference between those two won't be huge, but @ T7/8 gear, i'd start going for agility on new drops.

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Q u o t e:
3. Is keeping EA (...)

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When Sunder is missing, EA becomes very high priority, around S&D. I wouldn't actually drop S&D as a mutilate rogue for it (cycle disrupting), but as combat or HaT i'd consider it. In abscence of Sunder and presence of multiple rogues with different builds, EA should be done by HaT rogues if possible, combat if not; Muti only if no one else can.

As with S&D & Rupture, the value of EA is dependant on it being able to run all or at least most of it's runtime. If a mob is going to die in 5 seconds, no point doing it.

Well I gotta say this is one of the most great Guides i've ever seen! GJ!

Hello.

I'm leveling this alt and I want to ask, what build should I use until I will get to Mutilate.

I bought two BoA Heartseekers (enchanted with Crusader) so I want to use them until I reach Mutilate. I'm trying to level with combat build from OP, but I think it's not as good as if I bought the sword. I don't like PvP BoA sword so I want to stick with daggers.

Can anyone help me with dagger leveling build to lvl 50 please? Then I plan to switch to Mutilate build from OP.

Thank you for your answer.

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Q u o t e:

Mut has the same spec change when they get 4set bonus of T8
They go from 51-13-7 to 51-7-13. maybe something too check out too?
(Found it at the pocket guide on EJ’s)

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Quoting my self.
Look at this part only than.

Maybe you can add the Repture Mut spec (51-7-13), it's already been tested by EJ's.
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk_updated_3_1_a/

Bump

believe this might need another bump ppl tend to miss it the second it drops down.

Nvm wanted this as a sticky however seems like Im blind >.<

Hi all,

I have asked this question in another post but got no responce.
all it was is quick question about hit, before i got the T7 chest and sholders I had around 200-230 hit and was doing about 3k average DPS in naxx 10 and 4k on patch but after equiping those bits of kit it has droped down to 2.5k av and 3ish on patch, I have added 2 yellow hit gems to try and push it up but have to see tomorrow when we run naxx again if it has made a difference.

am i missing something or is it just the drop in hit that caused that?

(i previously had trollwoven and ebon rep chest)

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Q u o t e:
Maybe you can add the Repture Mut spec (51-7-13), it's already been tested by EJ's.
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-pocket_guide_wotlk_updated_3_1_a/

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Adding it, thanks for the headsup :)

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Q u o t e:
am i missing something or is it just the drop in hit that caused that?

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It's probably a 'small sample size'-problem, or something out of your control.

If you take a 6 sided die, and roll it an infinite number of times (good luck :P ), the average of all rolls will tend to gravitate towards 3.5. However any small sample of only a few rolls (like say 4-5 out of the total) can be wildly off that average, way below it as well as way above it.

We tend to expect the average or median outcomes of random events, often looking for reasons why something would deviate so much. The truth is, unless you're looking at very large samples in normalized conditions, it can be pure coincidence*, or any other factor that isn't related to your gear (random buff uptime from other classes, procs, some boss debuff missing; everyone being a tad lazy, the fight taking longer, and thus bringing you into an engagement length that's disadvantageous for your times/cooldowns; etc...).

*) unfortunately, most of us suffer from a poor understanding of probability and coincidence, due to evolutionary reasons. We're looking for patterns & tend to find them where none are; pattern-detection is as important ability to adapt to out surroundings, and because a false positive carries less survival risk than a false negative. Expecting an average or median outcome from small samples is a common consequence of that :)

There was a neat youtube video trying to explain issues with coincidence, if you're currently bored :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98OTsYfTt-c&feature=player_embedded

PS: yeay, frontpaged again :)

Having gone through all 23 pages (>.>") of this thread, I was wondering if anyone was able to expand on the TtT vs MP debate? As far as I'm aware 2/3 MP and 1/3 TtT is > than 3/3 in either of them? This is what I've been led to believe, so far, but I'd like to read up more information on it, if it's out there.

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Q u o t e:
Having gone through all 23 pages (>.>") of this thread, I was wondering if anyone was able to expand on the TtT vs MP debate? As far as I'm aware 2/3 MP and 1/3 TtT is > than 3/3 in either of them? This is what I've been led to believe, so far, but I'd like to read up more information on it, if it's out there.

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From:
http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t54257-3_1_rogue_faq_if_youre_new_ish_here_read_before_posting_updated_6_2_09_a/

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Q u o t e:

Q: Those links have TtT instead of Master Poisoner. Why?
A: They're too close together to make a general recommendation, and I had to pick one. If you want to know which is better for you, check the spreadsheet. Many people find splitting points between them to be better than maxing out either one.

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It seems gear depended, the TtT vs MP discussion, and they are reather close on dps.
Specsheet is the best way too make sure what's best for you.
As long as you can get enough stacks of DP before using Env you can pick some (or all) points in TtT in my opinion, and if you see having problems with DP procs than spec more points in MP.
2/3 MP 1/3 TtT could work well for you, but I don't know how it will for others.

maybe something too mention in the guide :)