I updated it a bit, some clarifications etc.

This guide is not updated for 2.3 (yet) 99% of the guide still apllies

http://www.honorbound.se/Slamdps2.pdf

Enjoy!

(And please comment, especially if you find something unclear or have something to add, or just want to support the Slam-warrior build :-P)


Proof of concept (note this is in no intention to swing my e-peen, it's just proof of that Slam do work in raids and is not all theorycraft. I know that there are a lot of warriors with better gear etc).

http://honorbound.se/images/vashj.jpg
http://honorbound.se/images/voidreaver.jpg

Builds are not updated for 2.3 (yet)

Very decent guide. Should be linked in the sticky.

Personally i would pick up weaponmastery instead of improved heroic strike, cause weapon skill has a lot of influence on your %hit between 350 and 355.

Reported for sticky.

Did I miss something? Since when does Slam not reset the swing timer anymore?

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Did I miss something? Since when does Slam not reset the swing timer anymore?

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Welcome to 10 months ago.

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Welcome to 10 months ago.

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That timestamp would be horribly inaccurate.

Slam does reset the swing timer, which is the reason you should only use it directly after a normal hit and not right before. Sword Spec, however, doesn't reset the swing timer anymore (or at least shouldn't).

PS: Very nice guide :)

I interpret the guide as a claim that slam *pauses* your swing timer.

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I interpret the guide as a claim that slam *pauses* your swing timer.

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Yeah, so do I mate, I think he means that it'll continue after the Slam but it gets put on the beginning again :) Would be good to change it to something like "after the Slam has landed your swing timer will start from the beginning again" or something.

Good guide nonetheless.

OP: Firstly you missed out the most fundamental mechanics of Slam : the fact that it resets the swing timer, and therefore should only be used directly after a white hit. Any guide claiming to explain slam needs to spell this out plain and clear. Secondly, your numbers are wrong:

Slam is not normalized, and therefore does a lot more damage than you indicate.

With 3k AP, and a 3.8 speed wep:

MS damage = 210 + (3.3 * AP / 14 ) + random_wep_dam
Slam damage = 140 + (3.8 * AP / 14 ) + random_wep_dam

For arguments sake, let's say wep damage is 500:

MS damage = 210 + 3.3*3000 / 14 + 500 = 1417
Slam damage = 140 + 3.8*3000/14 + 500 = 1454

The important thing to note is that with a slow weapon, slam scales better with AP than MS or WW (both of which are normalised).

Apart from that - your calculations for skill rotations are very close to being spot on, and give a very good guide on how to use slam assuming you mean using slam after each white (which you certainly haven't spelt out clear enough).

please read the guide before commenting. the entire guide claims it resets swingtimer and nothing else. I understand people might misinterpret my writing, but I thought it was common knowledge it resets swing timer. I'll clarify!


Thanks for the non-normalized weapon damage pointer! Although it does not change any of the conclusions, the numbers will be slightly altered and I will adjust accordingly.

You cannot pick Weaponmastery instead of imp heroic strike, is impossible to spend the talent points that way. you cannot buy tier 3 talents before spending x amounts of talents point in the below tiers you know? :) Main reason for pickup up imp HS is because you will tank a lot, and with revenge and sunder as your only ragetools, you'll dump a lot of rage in HS, and it will help a little with your threat gen when tanking if it's talented. it's not very important talent though and if you prefer other things this talent can be skipped.

To people above claiming Slam pauses your swingtimer: it does not! I tried this rumor extensively. I attacked one of those unkillade mobs and slammed 10 consecutive slams with a 3 second delay, and there was not a single auto attack in the combat log. If blizzard at some time claimed it only pauses swing timer, it is wrong (and I even think I still have the SS to prove it) :)

With regards to using HS - you should never use it, even if you have a full rage bar: this is because of the delayed rage starvation. HS may result in 0 rage gen for 8-9 seconds, so even with a full rage bar it may affect you badly (ie missing MS / WW ) in that later 8-9 seconds. - so that's missing out on up to 2k damage for the sake of a pathetic 200ish from the HS damage.

For example (underlined is your rage if you didn't HS)

---- 0.0 --- auto attack lands, you get 100 rage
---- 0.1 --- you slam (-15 rage) Rage: 85
---- 0.6 --- you use HS (-15 rage) Rage: 70 (85)
---- 1.0 --- you use MS ( -30 rage) Rage:40 (55)

---- 3.7 --- your HS lands (0 rage gen) Rage:40 (85 : gained 30 from hit)
---- 3.8 --- you begin to slam (-15 rage) Rage: 25 (70)
---- 5.3 --- you WW (25 rage) Rage: 0 (45)

---- 7.4 --- you hit (gain 30 rage) Rage: 30 (75)
---- 7.5 --- you begin slam (-15 rage) Rage:15 (60)
---- 9.0 --- you try to MS, but you cannot because you used HS earlier!


If you had not used HS, not only could you MS now, but you would also have a whole 30 rage after your MS.

Moral of the story: Never use HS with a 2h, not even with a full rage bar!

and yes HS should not be used freely (wich is nothing I claim you should, I just said it's the ragedump you should use if you are going to use any, there are fights where you cannot spend all the rage (VR for example, although threat might be an issue there)). You CAN use slam if VR start's a groundstomp and you are at 100 rage, because you will take enought damage to get to full. You can also use HS if you are at the point in wich cycle you will not do any instant attack, at that point you can then bloodrage, and regain the rage you spent on the HS.

Heroic strike is possible to use, just use it carefully! Your pointers are good though and I'll clarify. However skipping HS completely is jsut a waste, I use it frequently and I hae yet to encounter a rage starvation problem because of it.

Used correctly you can squeeze a little extra dps out of it. Beware HS adds extra threat though, and if you are limited by threat, never use it.

Even if you're taking occasional damage like Void reaver, there's still a good chance you'll miss out on a MS or WW if you use HS. The rage cost of HS is massive. In raids I have around 50% crit, and generate around 30 rage on hits, maybe 70 on crits. So the average rage cost of HS for me is: 15 + ( 30+70)*0.5 = 65 rage. Even if you've got a full rage bar, you're taking damage now, and bloodrage is up, spending that much rage could easily cause a lost MS/WW 10-12 seconds down the line, especially if you have three non-crits in a row.

I'd have to disagree with you: you can never be certain of your rage gen over such a long period, unless maybe you have aggro of something. For this reason I'd say always stay clear of HS.

I use slam all the time. In fact it is the only offensive attack I use (apart from execute). I am 2h Fury spec, currently level 54 and I've extensively tested Slam to which I've drawn the following conclusions:

- Slam pauses the swing timer while it is 'casting'
- Slam resets the swing timer

I know this, because I have a swing timer mod (Quartz) which shows a casting bar for my swings.

It is best to use Imp Slam directly after a normal hit.

well let's get some stuff stright first HS add about 250 damage (208 damage iirc + cannot be glancing) * critrate, so about 375 damage for you.

in the above case you pictured, there are 3 autoattacks, 2 wich generated rage. chances of them not being crits or not triggering wf is 1-(0.8^3 * 0.5^2) = 12.8% is a 12.8% risk worth taking to do 375 damage? yes it is mathematically speaking. However this is up to each person to decide. However let me draw you this scenario:


1 autoattack, slam, MS
2 autoattack, slam, WW
3 autoattack, slam, MS
---- we are here and because we have taken som random splashdamage we are at ~80 rage ----
trigger HS
1 heroic strike, slam, bloodrage

We will be at 70 rage (wich is perfectly safe) and just added one heroic strike. Especially if there still is random splashdamage going around.

it was a perfectly safe heroic strike, with NO risk of rage starvation, and I added 375 damage... Well worth the free 375 damage is it was completely risk free! (and being at 70 rage is riskfree, chances you'll be ragestarved after that are extremely slim if you are well geared).

The comment's and discussions are very appreciated, and it's interesting to see other slammer's point of view. Please do continue the theorysrafting and pointers!)

I wouldn't suggest you use Heroic Strikes in PvE because of extra threat it generates. You don't really want that when you're DPS.

I used Slam alot in PvP and it was really neat if timed correctly. But I changed it and spam Cleave now.
Slam is still my favourite when PvE-ing. I basicly used the same rotations.

Nice guide

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I wouldn't suggest you use Heroic Strikes in PvE because of extra threat it generates. You don't really want that when you're DPS.

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Well, HS really doesn't add that much threat in a cycle like this, the total threat will be negligible compared to the threat from the pure damage from the slam-ms-slam-ww-slam-ms cycle (HS has +196 threat and +176 damage, compare this to the ~10k damage from the rest of the cycle...).

Really nice guide, thanks for making it.

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well let's get some stuff stright first HS add about 250 damage (208 damage iirc + cannot be glancing) * critrate, so about 375 damage for you.

in the above case you pictured, there are 3 autoattacks, 2 wich generated rage. chances of them not being crits or not triggering wf is 1-(0.8^3 * 0.5^2) = 12.8% is a 12.8% risk worth taking to do 375 damage? yes it is mathematically speaking. However this is up to each person to decide. However let me draw you this scenario:


1 autoattack, slam, MS
2 autoattack, slam, WW
3 autoattack, slam, MS
---- we are here and because we have taken som random splashdamage we are at ~80 rage ----
trigger HS
1 heroic strike, slam, bloodrage

We will be at 70 rage (wich is perfectly safe) and just added one heroic strike.

it was a perfectly safe heroic strike, with NO risk of rage starvation, and I added 375 damage... Well worth the free 375 damage is it was completely risk free! (and being at 70 rage is riskfree, chances you'll be ragestarved after that are extremely slim if you are well geared).

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I agree, just nitpicking a bit ;). The HS with +208 damage is rank 11 which is not in the game yet. Rank 10 is +176 damage.