The new talents will barely be enough to counter what the other classes have now. Think we can compete with their new talents and spells? (Hint: no)

Wolves seems cool, but there is so far no information whether they will be any good. Nice dps? Any CC or anti-CC? Tanking abilities? We don't know. Being a pessimist, I think they will be downed in 2 seconds by most classes.

Anyway, I am still waiting for the Forked Lightning..

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Q u o t e:

rogues are only good at 1vs1

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\o/

First!

True but we've been through same thing during tbc beta. I'm not gonna whine here and say we cant kill xclass they re too op etc.

But many fan sites - comminities about wow pointed out shaman while talking about "blizzard neglected some "things" during tbc"

I guess we all felt "rogue love" from devs not only in shaman case. (not whining about rogues) While our answer was l2respec.

My wish for wotlk is for devs not to have favorites.

Slorkuz , our pessimism stems from the FACT that we have been shafted so often , it hurts . Sorry to say , but the majority of the shaman community is very disenchanted with the Devs . Kalgan has lied to us the only time he has graced the US shaman forums with his presence . Add to that , our skill sets diminish almost every patch . People are going to be disenchanted , arent they ?

That being said , we understand that the Alpha testing has to be completed , and I personally cant wait for beta testing . I hope Blizzard deliver this time and WOTLK is a major success for the company and player base .

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Q u o t e:
What if the class you are comparing with got buffed/nerfed/changed in some way that makes it's current state void?

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Before TBC, I was a mage. This was the exact same treatment given to that specific class before and during Beta, while two thirds of the mage community, among it the most respected mages such as Faxmonkey, were warning that it won't end well. Need I remind you that the pattern in TBC went almost exactly as the community predicted because Blizzard refused to listen back then? Even today, several of the problems presented over a year and half ago, were STILL not solved - what makes you believe wotlk will be any different? Community will cry and warn, devs will ignore, pattern will repeat itself.

This may sound extremely sensible if you only take this as an isolated case, every shaman change in TBC so far has been rather mediocre or a forced tone down due to balance issues.

The Elemental change of the casting time of CL/LB with LO, was a complete farce, either you guys have problems doing the math on your own games spells/effects or it was an all out lie on the "this will improve your damage guys" campaign.
The campaign which needed an ongoing flow of your customers spamming third grade mathematical solutions to get it "fixed"within proportions.

At the start of TBC the linking of the WF cooldown just showed no real insight into the class during alpha/beta, you could see the spike damage from a mile away.
The WF totem change, something that has been around since the launch, yet now it was giving too much of a buff.

As with the proposed NS/EM nerf not too long ago by Kalgan, let's quote :

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Q u o t e:
“Shamans in general will be getting buffs to go along with their nerfs. Bear in mind that there's still quite a bit that hasn't been implemented yet.

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From Thundgots post.
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=2843568757&sid=1

Yet another story that got lost in we have no time to implement it before the patch.

So yes please forgive us if we start shouting at an early stage, I hope there will be enough time for you guys to fix stuff before the patch goes live this time.

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Q u o t e:
Needless to say, we are looking forward to the Beta phase and all the changes and feedback it implies. We hope that you can do the same, and with a little patience - hang back on the criticism until you know what the final result for all classes will be.

After all, we want everyone to be able to enjoy their class to the fullest! :)

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When I stand between bashing Shamans that are drooling in mindless happiness over the WotLK Elemental tree, or bashing the talents themselves... then I'm gracious and go for the latter.

I do hope that the talents will change. I really do.

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Q u o t e:


After all, we want everyone to be able to enjoy their class to the fullest! :)

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After they buy the expansion!...kind off....maybe





Oh yes, Im being pessimistic, so far I see no real reason not to be.

Shamans have nice talents in the next expansion compared to some other classes which have been forgotten about or simply discarded. I have no idea what you are QQ'ing for

Look at the other classes skills and just start to worry

For example you will be pleased to know that Rogue and warriors can disarm your shield. In my PvP gear I think I have 12K armour of which half that is my Shield. I have not seen any shaman talent as of yet that will balance that out.

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Q u o t e:


As has been stated for a while, all of the major class overhauls for all classes will be introduced with Wrath of the Lich King. What you have seen so far, from officially released information and from the play test area information derived from WWI is preliminary changes and implementations of abilities, changes and talents. They are in an Alpha state, and should be considered as such.

It is a bit rash to state, at this point, that what you have seen is "not good enough" - acting as if it is final and the only changes going in. As we enter the Beta phase of WotLK and open up testing to a larger amount of people, we expect to be getting a lot more feedback from different sources and perhaps viewpoints. We hope to make good use of this feedback as the expansion goes through it's Beta phase and until release. Not just for one or two classes, but for every class.

Comparing the relative strength of a current class on live realms to the addition of talents to just one class is a flawed comparison by default. What if the class you are comparing with got buffed/nerfed/changed in some way that makes it's current state void? What if the class you are comparing with still has some major changes not yet implemented? What if the same applies to your class?

Needless to say, we are looking forward to the Beta phase and all the changes and feedback it implies. We hope that you can do the same, and with a little patience - hang back on the criticism until you know what the final result for all classes will be.

After all, we want everyone to be able to enjoy their class to the fullest! :)

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sorry to sound jaded, but heard this all before

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Q u o t e:
WOTLK talents = how to fix the class @ lvl 70.

In WOTLK we'll be one expansion behind everyone else.

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This

Eminently sensible words Slorkuz and I think most people on these boards understand that this is a'first pass' at the talents and abilities that will be refined during alpha and beta testing. However, don't be surprised by the reactions to the WWI information (and unofficial leaks) - both positve and negative. To a greater or lesser extent all classes will do that, but for shamans who have been 'at the bottom' for considerably longer than any other class, this is the make or break release. Given the amount of constructive comments on this forum and the pages of class feedback (we really thought 2.3 was going to be our deliverance) you can understand people grasping at any information, but also being very distrustful after earlier disappointments and comments by the senior develpers.

I work in software development, I'm even responsible for strategic development of a software product (different industry) so I know how the business works. For you to release this information at the WWI indicates a certain amount of confidence in it and a certain amount of development already completed so, unless the release of WotLK is much further off than anticipated, no matter what happens I'd fully expect to see at least 80% of this in the expansion.

Asking people to hang back on the criticism is a little like being King Canute. In the shaman case it's a pre-emptive strike mechanism against future disappointment! They also have a valid point, the information we have seen released so far is addressing our situation and our problems now. You have a very valid counter point in that we should see how that stacks up against other classes, but forgive us our initial feeling that we'll still be playing catch-up. It's as if you've taken all the feedback given prior to 2.3 and used that as the base of the class development. That feedback was given in response to what shamans felt was left out of TBC in relation to other classes. We really hope that your class developers are putting some real imagination into the things we haven't seen (if not ask the community!).

Your final point is well taken, but stings a bit. In PVE, shamans are good - we'd like a few more abilities and it seems you are going to deliver those, but in PVP the majority of us can't enjoy our class fully now. You can say 'don't PVP' or 'l2respec', but the game mechanics are such that although you'll get some players who are exclusivley PVE and some exclusively PVP, most wil do a bit of both (and pay their subscription to do exactly that). We are so susceptible to losing control of our characters with no means of escape (except a non-class specific trinket on CD) that we can't enjoy them fully. That has to be fixed and addressed properly. Whether that needs changes to shamans or changes to other classes, we'll leave Blizzard to decide.

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Q u o t e:


3 - Looking at these talents make me feel like we'll be going into level 80 one expansion pack behind the other classes.

.

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You obviously havent seen the mage talents. Shamans look certainly fun to play in the next expansion, dont know how viable they may be though. However an Enhancement shaman( not pvp spec) with 2 wolves and an elemental sounds nice. I believe it is Elemental that really needs fixing. Oh well, lets hope they listen. I'm rolling a shaman if they leave the mages where they were left in alpha: the gutter.

Come join us - there's quite a few of us used to be mages pre-TBC. Myself included.

~

On topic, and personally I'm confused by the Shaman talents I've seen. Sticking to my resto nature, I'm seeing 14% crit sprinkled through the resto tree, aload of 'proc' effects from Healing wave and LHW based on that crit, and no improvements to Chain heal.

I'm also seeing our best improvement to Earthshield in the Enhancment tree (+15% healing), and what will (possibly) be our best way to control our mana usage, 11 points down the elemental tree with the change to clearcasting to including healing spells (but not proc'able via chain heal).

Seems we're going to be turning into crit heavy single-target shamadins. Either that, or we remain exactly as we are now at L70, and continue to spam CH, only less effectively because all our new talents effect HW and LHW.

Hmmmmm... I'm not saying it's bad, I don't have the figures/stats to know either way yet. Only that, first impressions are ... confusing.

/insert usual disclaimer about it being alpha and as such open to change.

i know this is probably going to sound a little retarded, but where is everyone getting their information from?

look around and i can't seem to find anything about the alpha WotlK talents.

could someone point me in the right direction please.

cheers

The Spot

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Q u o t e:
i know this is probably going to sound a little retarded, but where is everyone getting their information from?

look around and i can't seem to find anything about the alpha WotlK talents.

could someone point me in the right direction please.

cheers

The Spot

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http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=h

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Q u o t e:
We hope to make good use of this feedback as the expansion goes through it's Beta phase and until release. Not just for one or two classes, but for every class.

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Yes, right... you mean like they reacted to the TBC beta? The shaman forum was full with feedback about how weak the class was but it was pushed into release without changes regardless. And now we have been stuck with a class that doesn't work in competitive PvP. The little that works has been added in bandaid-patches over the year.