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  • 0. Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   08/15/2007 03:32:05 AM PDT
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Ps. I am no longer on Trollbane, I have transferred to Magtheridon.

The Intro
One of the most commonly asked questions regarding playing a Healing druid is how to compare Healing, Spirit and MP/5s on gear against each other. There are many theories and opinions, but few well-founded facts. We can extrapolate the use of spirit and mp/5s in a fight, but attempts to do so will most likely fail due to the model not being complex enough - there are too many variations of buffs and methods to regenerate mana and variables and so forth to make a single ratio between different stats the norm. That is why I have created this.. Make no mistake - I made this primarily to improve my own play.

The Disclaimer
There are three main issues that you need to be aware of, using this model. 1st) it is complex, but it will never be complex enough to capture what actually goes on in combat. There will always be a gap between model and practice - I have tried to make it as small as possible, but it will always be there. 2nd) This model cannot think for itself. Numbers you input must be correct. The model will not react if you spend 120 seconds casting every minute, or if you are within FSR 100% of the time and only cast one spell in the entire fight. Your own judgement is the only thing that decides the input of data. 3rd) This model will have bugs to start off with. I am hoping that with your aid we can erase them as soon as possible. It is also a work in progress, which means some parts are not included.

The File
The highest one being the most up-to-date. Note that the file has been preset with some of my own values as an example on how to use it. Lightweight is without armor tables.

( http://thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/HealingValuev7Armor.xls ) (2007-19/11) (351kb)
( http://www.thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/HealingValuev6Armor.xls ) (2007-28/8) (13 MB)
( http://www.thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/HealingValuev6Lightweight.xls ) (2007-28/8)
( http://www.thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/HealingValuev5.xls ) (2007-27/8)
( http://www.thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/HealingValuev4.xls ) (2007-16/8)
( http://www.thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/HealingValuev3.xls ) (2007-15/8)
( http://www.thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/HealingValuev2.xls ) (2007-15/8)
( http://www.thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/HealingValuev1.xls ) (2007-15/8)

The Addons
There are two addons that will help you measure important input data for this model.

RatingBuster
( http://files.wowace.com/RatingBuster/ )
Ratingbuster is used to compare stats on items you haven't equipped with what you're wearing. It is intended for "on-the-go" comparisons, but it does not suffice when it comes to comparing the stats on a complex level. However, it does show you some important things - like the difference in Spirit, Crit Chance, Intelligence and Mana regen.

After you have installed the addon, write /ratingbuster optionswin
The options you are looking for can be found under Stat Summary

Stat - Base
Mana Regen
Healing
Spell Crit Chance

Stat - Composite
Spirit
Intellect

Ignore Settings
Ignore Enchants

Make sure all these are enabled.

Fubar_Regenfu
( http://files.wowace.com/FuBar_RegenFu/ )
This addon will help you measure how much time you spend in FSR. It requires Fubar
( http://files.wowace.com/FuBar/ ). Note that this addon does (for the moment) not put you outside FSR when you use innervate on yourself - the model has worked around this.

d^_^b

[ Post edited by Heavenfall ]


Call me... the Guarding Dark.

Imagine how strong I must be.


http://www.perfectlysane.eu Looking for 1 feral druid ready for MH/BT
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  • 1. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   08/15/2007 03:32:38 AM PDT
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The Uses
So, having installed the two addons above, how can we put this model to use?

First of all, there are coloured cells in the model. Black means it requires input from your side. Yellow means it is a final result of the model (ie - something you want to look at). Red marks warnings, limits you should not exceed.

Furthermore, there are two columns of Black cells. Your basic stats that you have should be entered into the left one, reading "Current". Then you can modify the "Change" column to experiment with what result this would have on your overall healing. The Change cell should be used with data that is in relation to the Current cell. For example, if you have 500 spirit, and you will get 5 less spirit if you switch an item, then the Current cell should read 500 and the Change cell should read -5.

Example: Item upgrade?
I recently obtained the Veil of Turning Leaves ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32518 ) because I did not have enough information to see if it was an upgrade or not. The item I was thinking of replacing was Nordrassil Life-Mantle ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30221 ) socketed with two 9 healing / 2 mp/5s gems. Wearing that item means I would lose 18 healing, gain 0,03% crit chance, lose 7.9 mana regen and gain 2 Intellect and 25.3 spirit (Ratingbuster). Entering these stats into the model in the right way, into the Change column ( -18 in the Black Healing cell, 0,03 in the Black Spell crit cell, -7.9 in the Black Regen While Casting Cell, +2 in the Black Intellect cell, +25,3 in the Black Spirit cell), the result pops up in the Yellow squares above. In a 8minute 30s fight, I would lose almost 5000 healing done. The judgement: My dkp was wasted - for now. I will of course keep the item to check again when my stats change, as that will in turn change how I can value the stats on other items.

After I am done, I change the Black Change cells back to 0, so I can use it again for another comparison.

Example: Dreamstate vs Resto
Let's say that I spend 30s every minute casting single Lifeblooms (20) , and 30s every minute casting HT9 (10). Everything else is factory-issue setup. What impact would it have on my healing if I changed from Resto Spec to Dreamstate/Resto?
( http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0xcbuqcshhZZxxcbxqM )
In the Black Change column, put a 3 at Lunar Guidance, 1 at Nature's Grace, 3 at Moonglow and 3 at Dreamstate. Put -3 on Living Spirit, -3 on Living Spirit, -5 on Empowered Rejuvenation and -1 on Tree of Life.
By looking at the Yellow Change column, I can see that I would actually lose 245 healing done in the fight, even though I had gained 2731 more mana to use.

Example: Which item is the strongest for my headslot?
This requires the Armor version of the file.
First, go to the Gear tab at the bottom. Then click the arrow to show slots available, and select Head, like this: http://thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/tutorial1.PNG
After that, click on the arrow to sort Weight in the Q column, and scroll up and select "Sort Falling", like this: http://thedyinggrounds.com/HealingValue/tutorial2.PNG
Note that the last step must be redone every time you change something on the first sheet.

The To-do-list

This is what isn't in the model, and you should be FULLY aware of this before using it:
- ToL aura (need ideas on implementation!)
- Nature's Grace
- Different Overhealing between spells
- Different spellcasts when OOM

[ Post edited by Heavenfall ]


Call me... the Guarding Dark.

Imagine how strong I must be.


http://www.perfectlysane.eu Looking for 1 feral druid ready for MH/BT
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  • 4. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   08/15/2007 11:38:23 AM PDT
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Free bump from a keylogger? It's like a win, but I feel dirty.

Call me... the Guarding Dark.

Imagine how strong I must be.


http://www.perfectlysane.eu Looking for 1 feral druid ready for MH/BT
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  • 5. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   08/15/2007 12:14:28 PM PDT
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Very intresting post, I will take a closer look on the xls file after my raid.

I never compared this stats by a xls cheet before, I always went for Healing > spirit > mp5


Mp5 is hardly needed if you use pots and spirit is nice for boosting your ToL aura and some powerful innervates. +Healing is the only way to give you more healing done
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  • 6. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   08/15/2007 12:33:23 PM PDT
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Very nice. Would it be a lot of extra work to add Blue Dragon Cards and Bangle of Endless Blessings procs into the sheet?
Obviously they increase the relative value of spirit for regen if you're using them.

Bear armour and HP is inversely proportional to the IQ of the whine poster
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  • 7. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   08/15/2007 02:58:37 PM PDT
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V3
Living Spirit was included on Character sheet, but not compensated in model
Added 2nd red square to Cast time spent
Removed Theoretical OOM from Yellow blocks (theoretical block anyway)
Current Regrowth was affected by Change Empowered Rejuvenation
Healing Touch Rank 7 no longer affected by ToL ratio
Healing Touch no longer has double mana cost /bonk
Fixed a few logical flaws with OOM implementation

V4
Lunar Guidance… again
Natural Perfection wasn't changing crit on Change
Moved Tranquil Spirit and Moonglow to Mana stage instead of Mana / Cast
Living Spirit was included on Character sheet, but not compensated in model
Fixed ToL talent
Moonglow was erroneously counted for Swiftmend



Q u o t e:
Very nice. Would it be a lot of extra work to add Blue Dragon Cards and Bangle of Endless Blessings procs into the sheet?
Obviously they increase the relative value of spirit for regen if you're using them.


Bangle of Endless Blessings - put 0,38 in the Change column for Intensity. The trinket also adds 21.6r spirit, add that in the Change column for Spirit (multiply by 1,15 if you have 3/3 Living Spirit). Comboing the Use with Innervate gives you another 1660 mana or so (if you have 3/3 Living Spirit), add that to the cell for Total Mana behind everything else.

Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon is a lot more complex because it depends on what spells you are casting. If you are using Lifebloom only (40 casts per minute) the trinket will proc on average 0,8 times per minute, or 12% less inside FSR per minute. Multiply by your current FSR number: 90% = 0,9, 75% = 0,75% and so on. If you are only casting 3s cast spells, half the number. When you have your final FSR change from the trinket, add that to the Change / Inside FSR (%). For example, if you had 100% FSR before, write -0,12 in the cell.

And believe me when I say that is the easy way.

[ Post edited by Heavenfall ]


Call me... the Guarding Dark.

Imagine how strong I must be.


http://www.perfectlysane.eu Looking for 1 feral druid ready for MH/BT
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  • 8. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   08/27/2007 02:52:08 AM PDT
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V5
Fixed Innervate giving regen even though not used
Fixed Change on Innervate not being equal to Current Innervate
Complere remake of the "OOM" system
HT9 was getting bonus from Empowered Rejuvenation
Double-checked all the "weight" stats to make sure they were accurate, modded where they weren't

Does anyone know of an easy way to translate items to excel tables? Or does anyone know how wow.allakhazam.com's advanced search works with weights? I keep getting very strange results.

A warring we have come
A reaving we shall work
And when the day is done
In our eyes the Gods shall lurk!
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  • 9. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   08/28/2007 11:49:43 AM PDT
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V6
Lots of coefficiency checking
Someone mentioned that Empowered Rejuvenation adds additively with Coefficients, not multiplicative
Lifebloom "bloom" does not gain anything from Empowered Rejuvenation Talent
First Gear List included
For all odds and ends, Empowered Touch is counted as multiplicative with coefficient… /shrug
Splitting into Lightweight and Armor sheets

Special thanks to the Item database project and its supporters
( http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10809-item_database_project_all_these_spreadsheets/ )

Also added instructions on how to use the Gear part in the 2nd post here.


A warring we have come
A reaving we shall work
And when the day is done
In our eyes the Gods shall lurk!
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  • Burning Steppes
  • 11. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   09/18/2007 05:41:51 AM PDT
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Awesome! Gonna help me out alot :).
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  • 12. Re: Model to compare Spi, Mp/5s and Healing   11/19/2007 05:35:50 AM PST
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V7
Intensity changes included
Fixed Mark of the Wild to 18,9 instead of 18 and included FSR regen
Added Golden Fishsticks
Gear updated to 2.3

Also, there is only an armor version because anyone should be able to download 351kb.

I see the Kingdom, father!
The whole of Stormhold...

And?
My kingdom?
Maybe...
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