World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2

Necrovaris

0. Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:46:46 PST

The 2 Part Ultimate Guide to Rogues.
Within this Guide are the Combined efforts of a fair few people, taken from the stickies and condenced into 2 threads. As and when it is required a third thread will be posted with any new information that may arise in the future.

Currently:
Part 1 - Starting your Rogue and Leveling
Part 2 - Advanced Rogue Techniques and Info

Part 2
Advanced Rogue Techniques and Info

Parts: (Click on the links to be taken to that section)
General Rogue Info and Formulas at 70
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=205730948&postId=2056025395&sid=1#1

How to Maximise DPS
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=205730948&postId=2056025395&sid=1#2

A guide to Hemorrhage
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=205730948&postId=2056025395&sid=1#3

Rogue Macros for 2.0; New Dogs for Old Tricks
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=205730948&postId=2056025395&sid=1#4

Rogue 2.0.3 talent builds
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=205730948&postId=2056025395&sid=1#11

A comprehensive guide to Mutilate
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=205730948&postId=2056025395&sid=1#11

End of Part 2
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=205730948&postId=2056025395&sid=1#12

Credits and Original threads
Credits
Rrobb
Coolgerb
Meynar
Sciatica
Docrates
Tardara

Original Threads
General Rogue Info and Formulas at 70 - http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=120672232&sid=1
How to Maximise DPS - http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=161386154&sid=1
A guide to Hemorrhage - http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=192339511&sid=1
Rogue Macros for 2.0; New Dogs for Old Tricks - http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=102000525&sid=1
Rogue 2.0.3 talent builds - http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=102000525&sid=1
A Comprehensive Guide to Mutilate - http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=207150714&sid=1

[ Post edited by Necrovaris ]

Necrovaris

1. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:47:21 PST

Original Content By Meyar
General Rogue Info and Formulas at 70.

As im a grouchy person and tired of constant post on Ap vs hit vs crit etc im just going to post a long explained list of the formulas etc as they are known and to some extent explain the rationale behind a lot of the advice and choices ppl make concerning them. The stats are worked out to a lvl 70 so you can retrograde them to lvl 60 easily if you want. This will be as all encompassing as i can manage and i hope it will be of some use. If anyone can see any gaping gaps in subject or glaring errors in calculations etc please post and ill alter them as im totally aware im not fantastically good at keeping errors out.

It does draw shamelssly on other posts by people etc from various sites most of whom i ca'nt remember so ill just credit the main sites and hope this will cover any issues of plageurism. The main sites are Dark Dominion, Elitist-Jerks, Wowwiki, Curse, WoWhead, Tentonhammer, old forums threads and ofc many chats and testing with the lovely Rogues in my guild.

Bold means a new topic
Italics means a sub section

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Basic Information

Stats At lvl 70

40.4* Agi = 1% Crit = 22.1 Crit rating vs a lvl 70 enemy with 350 defensive skill
( 1 Agi = 0.025*% crit )
22.8* Agi = 1% Dodge =18.9 Dodge rating versus a lvl 70 enemy with 350 weapon skill
( 1 Agi = 0.0438*% Dodge )
1 Agi = 1 Attack Power
1 Agi = 2 Armour
1 Str = 1 Attack Power
1 weapon skill = 3.9 weapon skill rating
Parry Rating: 31.5 rating grants 1% parry
Haste Rating: 10.58* rating grants 1% haste (this is tested and true in patch 2.07)
Hit Rating 15.8 hit rating 1% hit

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Attacks and there Formulas

Instant attacks, AP calculation

Instant attacks use a fixed "speed" for AP calculation, instead of your weapon speed.

Meaning that for instant attacks, such as Sinister Strike:
Damage = Weapon Damage + SS Bonus + ( (AP/14) * Fixed Speed )
instead of:
Damage = Weapon Damage + SS Bonus + ( (AP/14) * Weapon Speed )

Daggers : 1.7 Sec
1H Swords / Maces / Axes / Fist weapons : 2.4 Sec
2H Swords / Maces / Axes / Polearms : 3.3 Sec

Attack power calculation vs damage

14 AP = 1 dps

Actual damage added = Weapon speed * DPS
(slower weapon = more damage added from AP)

Example : 504 AP = (504/14) = +36 DPS
If weapon speed = 3 Sec, then Damage added = 3*36 = 108 (both min and max)
If weapon speed = 1.4 Sec, then Damage added = 1.4*36 = 50.4 (both min and max)

Hemorhage Formula

It should be noted with Hemo that you get more personal dmg from using slow weapons from it as its one of the few un-normalised instant attack. As its done by 'x' wepaon speed as opposed to normalised using fast weapons on this really is an excercise in futility and to be discouraged. This isnt personal opinion its just the obvious conclusion after looking at the formula for it.

Hemorrhage: Weapon Damage + (AP / 14) * Weapon Speed
Hemorrhage Critical: Hemorrhage Formula * (2 + Lethality Rank * 0.06)

Finisher Ap contributions

Garrote - 18% of your AP
Damage = (AP * 0.18) + [fixed ammount]

Eviscerate - 15% of your AP
Damage = (AP * 0.15) + [fixed ammount]

Rupture - 24% of your AP (dependant on combo points present)
Damage = (AP * 0.24) + [fixed ammount]

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Crit Capping and Attack Tables
(Note this is mostly taken verbatim from Wowwiki with additional comments by me to explain some of the oft confusing numbers on occasion)

Crit Cap - For the sake of this we will be looking at it from a raiding PoV which is that mobs are nominally classed as 3 lvls higher than you. Suprise attacks removes dodge from the tables but as it is a build specific talent it wont be dealt with here.

With no +skill/+hit gear on, attacks made by a dual wielder against a level 73 mob will have the following table attacking from the front:

Result Chance
Miss 24.6%
Dodge 5.6%
Parry 5.6%
Block 5.6%
Glancing Blow 40.0%
Combined hit + crit 18.6%

Attacking from the back prevents block and parry, giving 29.8% combined hit + crit. (Attacks from the back can still be dodged.)

If the same character attacks the same mob from the front with a 2-handed weapon, it is not as bad, although obviously we wont be doing this its still a useful example to help understand how the process works:

Result Chance
Miss 5.6%
Dodge 5.6%
Parry 5.6%
Block 5.6%
Glancing Blow 40.0%
Combined hit + crit 37.6%

This is a 37.6% + your +hit crit cap from the front, 48.8% from the back.

All these crit caps can be increased by increasing your +skill (0.14% increase per point from the front, .08% from the back) and by +hit (1% increase per point).

Summary

If your not hitting from behind your losing a possible 11.2%% of your crit chance being effective. If you dont have any points in weapon skill your losing effective crit chance on attaacks as in this case your crit will be lowest priority and moved off the tabling system. Attacking from behind really is win, as it gives you 11.2% more effective crit to play with and raid buffed most are over 40% so its pretty nice dmg boost to be able to use all of it.

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Hit vs Crit vs AP

The base miss chance when DW is 24% after 8% hit is worth the same as +crit/AP so its then down to personal prefernce and play style.

The minimum ammount of +hit that you need at 70 is 5% (79 rating) in PvP and 8% (125.6 rating) in PvE. This is the absolute mimimum as it guarantees as much as possible that you wont miss your special attacks although there is the unconfirmed 99.9% cap which could elicit occasional misses.The Table below shows to an extent what i mean, the Rogue has 30% crit but only 19.4% effective due to the high missrate and glancing blows eating away at the crit. Whilst we cant allevaite galncing blows with +hit we can gain more effective crit. Essentially +hit removes +miss from the table allowing more room for swings to be rolled as crits. This makes the first 5/8% worth both hit and crit and therefore extremley valuable.

Result Chance "Die Roll"
Miss 24.40% 0.01 - 24.40
Dodge 5.40% 24.41 - 29.80
Parry 5.40% 29.81 - 35.20
Block 5.40% 35.21 - 40.60
Glancing Blow 40.00% 40.61 - 80.60
Critical 19.40% 80.61 - 100.00
Crushing Blow 0% —
ordinary hit 0% —

(table from wowwikki)

What this is meaning is that before any other consideration get yourself 5/8% hit , then work up your crit and ap i prefer to get 8% hit > 25% crit and then build ap in around it after. As largely the ap is cheaper budgetarily on items as it doesnt scale, meaning its much easier to get items with it on as they're less rare. Snap up the crit items and then build in the AP when you get chance.

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Thats basically all the useful formulas/general info that i could think of, hope this helpful and stops some of the myriad of posts that go up asking for conversion to ratings etc.

[ Post edited by Necrovaris ]

Necrovaris

2. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:47:55 PST

Original Content by Docrates
How to Maximise DPS
After months of reading this forum i felt, well...I felt the need to post a guide ;)

Here it is

To maximise DPS there are three things to take note of:

About Equipment

Static Values

Dynamic Values

http://www.bleedo.net/rogue

About infight

- Hit & Run: in many encounters you will need to back up and bandage or avoid a nasty AOE, so you have to plan a Hit & Run tactic. Get 5 stacks of deadly poisons on the target as swift as possible, us Shiv if you have very low time, and then use Rupture (of course if the boss isn't immune).

- Nuke: Garrote is your opener, it will generate one CP, you'll have to use it for S&D and then spam Sinister Strike. Remember to use Feint whenever is up at the beginning. When your S&D is at one second use all the combo points you have to pop it up again, don't let it wear off. At this time a good tank will have enough aggro, pop up Blade Flurry, collect enough CP and use the appropriate finishing move. If you'll use Envenom, shiv the target as fast as possible, Combat Potency and Relentless attack will give you back some energy for more Sinister Strikes.

- Panic tactic: when all seems lost there's a chance you can, in five men instances, save the day. In order to do this you must have Evasion ready. So I hardly reccomand you to save this skill for when you WANT to overaggro or when you want to try to save the day.
You'll want to steal aggro from main healer in many cases, but before do so try to throw in a Blind, if the mob is immune or if it miss or if there more than one mob chasing your healer this could be not enough, time to: pop Blade Flurry, Adrenaline Rush, Evasion, and then Sinister Strikes spam, and riposte whenever is up, and whatever it's needed to mitigate damage, drink a health potion too if possible. If you have done all right S&D should be up from the start of the fight, if it goes down it's primarly to pop it up once again. Remember you have only 15 seconds to get away all the aggro from the healer....however...in many case this could not work but it's worth a try ;)

- Always have applied Instant on main and Deadly on off-hand

- Keep up S&D all the time, use Blade Flurry when tank has gained enough threat, use Adrenaline Rush when tank has gained even more threat.

- To keep up S&D you must try to use the less CP you can, as this will result in a 60% to gain a free CP and variable % to gain 25 energy from talents. One point S&D is actually the higher damage finishing move you can do with one combo point, use it.

- Against Boss spam feint at the beginning of the fight for 4-5 times, more if you plan to pop Adrenaline Rush early.

- If mangle is up use Rupture, if your target has a very high armour use Envenom, if your target is a common one use Eviscerate.

About Combat Build

Those are the best DPS builds at the moment:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=wbe0oLxZGcA00VzVMGot

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=wbe0oLxZGcA00VzxMGot

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=wbe0oLxZGcE00Vt00Got

Daggers:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fbe0oELsVzVoGci00V

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=iotcoLZGcA00Ez0MGotV

Mutilate benefits from having two slow daggers with high average damage and it's at the moment the top DPS build for daggers IF the target isn't immune to poisons.

Anyway if you have a very high DPS off-hand dagger with 1.4 attack speed, or less, Surprise Attacks build will do more damage.

Legend

DPS: damage per second
CP: combo points
S&D: slice & dice
AOE: area of effect
AEP: Agility Equivalence Point
Average damage: (MaxDamage+MinDamage)/2

Notes

1. This guide is to MAXIMISE dps, it doesn't take into account party utility, survivability nor anything else but damage.

2. ...nothing else but damage...I told you :D

3. Links:

http://shadowpanther.net/ <-------- download the excel file and calculate your own AEP values...

http://pvp.net.tf/ <---------- ...and then put your stats in this calculator ;)

http://www.bleedo.net/rogue/

oh, sustain these guys please, they are working for the rogue community! (and when I say sustain I mean especially try to help them in their work)

4. help me too! if a sentence or a word isn't correct please tell me that and I'll correct it...I'm not native :D

5. ...Superbia in proelio means "Pride in battle" and was a latin motto...you must be proud of being a rogue ;)

Necrovaris

3. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:48:37 PST

Original Content by Sciatica
A guide to Hemorrhage
-- Introduction --

Hemorrhage is a rogue talent in the Subtlety tree. It is an instant strike that deals the normal weapon damage +leaving a debuff on the target. This debuff increases all physical damage dealt to the target by X (+10 when you get the last rank).

In this thread I want to go through some of the most common questions people have about this talent.
I will also go through two myths. The myths that hemo is crap in raids and the myth that hemo has been nerfed in TBC due to lack of "decent" swords. None of those statements are true. And still we see people talking about this on the forum.

What made me do this thread? Well after seeing quite a few "buh huh"-posts about hemo and TBC, I decided to take a look myself. I checked the mathematical formulas and then made my own decision based on data and facs rather than countless forum-whine.

-- Hemorrhage, what is it? --

When people first get in touch with hemorrhage they see a weird form of Sinister Strike that is slightly cheaper but that comes without the extra damage modifier. +X increased physical damage doesn't really look that good now does it? Well both yes and no. In solo grinding, versus one player etc, that +X debuff is as crappy as Murder (now don't flame me here, Im not saying that Murder is a bad talent because it isnt). The strenght will appear in instances, and raids, when those 30 charges of hemo will be gone in seconds. We have now came to the first of the two myths I spoke about. The myth that hemo
is crap in raids/instances.

Hemorrhage is not crap in instances. Maybe it was less usefull before TBC but now it isn't. Why?
The number one reason is that we now have 10 extra talent points. 10 points that we will gladly place in the combat tree. Imagine that you are in a raid with many melee. Say that it takes 5 seconds for them to eat up your 30 hemo charges. How much extra dps is that? 30 charges times +10 extra damage = 300 extra damage. If those 300 extra damage are consumed within 5 seconds (like in this example) then you get an extra 60 dps!! If you think that 60 dps doesn't look like much, then consider this: 60 extra dps is equal to 3600 extra damage per minute, or 216 000 extra damage per hour - and we all know that raiding takes hours. Just like the talent Murder, the Hemo debuff will really prove to be something useful in the long run.

But wait a minute. What about resists?
I haven't played a rogue for too long, hell not even a year. But for all these months I have never ever seen a mob "resisting" the hemo debuff. Not even bleed-immune bosses!

But these two things I've brought up so far are only the visible pros of hemorrhage. Extra instance/raid damage and lower energy cost (lower energy cost = better stunlocking). The real power behind hemorrhage is normalization - Hemorrhage is not normalized.

-- Normalization? ---

Normalization is an attack power adjustment made to instant attacks that blizzard implemented in patch 1.8 I think. In your damage formula, you have your AP (attack power) multiplied by a factor (speed). What Blizzard did was to "normalize" all weapons so that your AP would be multiplied by a hard factor rather than your weapon speed. For daggers, this factor is 1.7. For all other one-handed weapons this factor is 2.4. Thankfully, Blizzard was smart enough not to normalize all instant attacks. For us rogues we still got 3 non-normalized attacks. Those are: Ghostly Strike, Riposte and Hemorrhage.

So, what we have here is that your AP is not multiplied by a set factor (2.4) but instead your weapon speed. You might have heard of this before, that "the slower the weapon the better the hemo"?

Now you might have noticed that I didn't mention Sinister Strike. That's because Sinister strike is normalized. Up to the next part!

-- Sinister Strike versus Hemorrhage --

Okay now that we are familiar with normalization, let's take a look at the formulas:

Hemorrhage: ((Attack power / 14) x wpn speed) + base weapon damage +10
Sinister Strike: ((Attack power / 14) x 2,4) + base weapon damage +98

Attack Power (AP) is divided by 14 and the result is then multiplied with the weapon speed. With SS, the normalized attack, weapon speed is always 2.4 for 1-handed weapons (excluding daggers). (AP/14) x weapon speed is the "liquid" value. As you can see the rest of the formula contains static values. As you can see here, hemo will become equally as strong (and stronger) as SS at some certain point - at some certain amount of AP that is. The last number in the formulas are:
For hemo: +10 is added if the target has a hemo debuff on it (highest rank of hemo gives +10 per melee).
For SS: +98 is added because it is a part of the skill. +98 is what you get from SS with the last rank.

One last thing we have to consider with the Sinister Strike formula is that Sinister Strike is more expensive than Hemorrhage. Hemo costs 35 energy per swing, and SS costs 40 energy per swing if you have 2 points in improved SS. So if we are gonna compare these two attacks in a fair way, we have to compare these two skills not by raw damage, but by "damage per energy spent". We have to multiply the SS formula with a factor. And that factor is: 35/40 = 0,875

Our complete formulas are:
Hemo: ((AP / 14) x wpn speed) + base wpn dmg +10
SS: (((AP / 14) x 2.4) + base wpn dmg + 98) x 0,875

Now let's compare the damage done. I've selected 4 MH weapons for this, 4 weapons with different speed ranging from 2.6 to 2.9. These weapons are:

Vindicator's Brand (143 - 267 Damage)(205 average)
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=29124

Spiteblade (153 - 285 Damage)(219 average)
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=28729

Misplaced Servo Arm (128 - 238 Damage)(183 average)
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=23221

High Warlord's Blade (138 - 207)(172,5 average)
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=16345

I made a spreadsheet for the damage, and below is some information derived from it. The full sheet can be downloaded here:

SPREADSHEET DOWNLOAD LINK
http://rapidshare.com/files/18441337/Hemorrhage_in_TBC.xls.html

Hemo with Vindicator's Band (2.6 speed) will start doing more damage per energy than Sinister strike at 1414 AP. For the first strike (before hemo debuff) hemo does more dmg per energy than SS at 1694 AP

Hemo with Spiteblade (2.7 speed) will start doing more damage per energy than Sinister strike at 1139 AP. For the first strike (before hemo debuff) hemo does more dmg per energy than SS at 1372

Hemo with Misplaced Servo Arm (2.8 speed) will start doing more damage per energy than Sinister Strike at 1068 AP. For the first strike (before hemo debuff) hemo does more dmg per energy than SS at 1268 AP

Hemo with High Warlord's Blade (2.9 speed) will start doing more damage per energy than Sinister Strike at 961 AP. For the first strike (before hemo debuff) hemo does more dmg per energy than SS at 1125 AP

-- The last myth --

As you might have seen in the spreadsheet, and read from this thread, hemo is far from useless.
Pre-TBC, the stardard MH weapon for hemo-builds were 2.9 speed correct? Do you also happen to remember your old AP? Because this is what happend in TBC:
Blizzard either forgot, or intentionally didnt make any 2.9 speed weapons because hemo would be overpowered. Our AP has risen and the weapon speed has gone down. In the end it evens out. Pre-TBC I was at 1000 AP. Nothing fancy at all. Now in TBC, in all blues, my AP has gone up 30% and it's still climbing. Rogues with an unbuffed AP of 1500, 1600 or even 1800 are not that uncommon. So If you still think this is unfair then consider this:

Let us create a fantasy 1-hand sword. We call it "Dreamslicer". Dreamslicer has a weapon speed of 2.9 and an average weapon base damage of 205.
Damage per energy cost would be:

At 1000 AP, Dreamslicer would do 422 damage with Hemo, and 415 damage with Sinister Strike
At 1250 AP, Dreamslicer would do 473 damage with Hemo, and 452 damage with Sinister Strike
At 1500 AP, Dreamslicer would do 525 damage with Hemo, and 490 damage with Sinister Strike
At 1750 AP, Dreamslicer would do 577 damage with Hemo, and 527 damage with Sinister Strike
At 2000 AP, Dreamslicer would do 629 damage with Hemo, and 565 damage with Sinister Strike.

Now considering this, ask yourself how hard it is to get up to 2000 AP?
Even in a PUG (Pick-up group) my AP goes up 40-50% and Im always above 2000 AP with buffs (from 1300 base to 2000). A rogue using Sinister Strike would only do 89,82% of the damage a Hemo rogue does, if we imagine that they got exactly the same gear. The Hemo rogue would do 11,3% more damage on his primary attack (Hemo) than the non-Hemo rouge would do with his primary attack (Sinister Strike). Now how fair does that look considering that we also got the following with hemo:
-Good dps buff that can't be resisted by ANY mob or boss (hemo debuff doing +10 damage on all melee)
-Better energy management due to lower cost of our primary attack

To be honest. If there were 2.9 swords in the game, I think there would be tons of whine from the combat rogues. 2.9 weapons in TBC would be too kickass Im afraid.

-- Builds --

Combat-Hemo (The best from two worlds)(PvE recommendation):
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=whxZ0eEz0Vzx00oZxrfoMhoo

Combat-Hemo (Variation. No AR):
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=whg0oZ0xEz0VzxZxMjoMhko

Hemo-Cold Blood (Deep sub-build with hemo and cold blood)(PVP recommendation)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhe0oxhoZZxMeoMuRsxox

Hemo-Seal Fate (Obviously less damage than the three above but with a greater combo point generation)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ihe0oxxoiZZxMeoMhRoxo

[ Post edited by Necrovaris ]

Necrovaris

4. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:49:21 PST

Original Content by Rrobb
Rogue Macros for 2.0; New Dogs for Old Tricks
Herein you will find a basic compilation of “roguish” macros. I am by no means a Macro Expert – most of the info here has been culled from other sources, the origins of which are mostly lost in the depths of the Forums. This is definitely not a complete do-it-all page. There is a lot of redundant info here that can be found in the other various forums or threads. The idea is that my Stealthy Bruthahs and Sistahs won’t have to hunt around to find their rogue macro info.

Please note that I have not fully tested all of these. Provide feedback if you find problems and / or fixes. Hopefully you will still find these macros useful. Please feel free to add in your favorite macros or variations that you use.

A hearty /thanks to Neuro, Cogwheel, Ming, and all other Macro Big Dawg’s whose names I forgot to mention. /Salute ya’s!

~ Lir ~

USEFUL MACRO THREADS:

WoW.Wiki for Macros 2.0

http://www.wowwiki.com/Useful_macros

http://www.wowwiki.com/2.0_consolidated_changes

Ming’s Patch 2.0 Macros!

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=52856151&sid=1&pageNo=1

Neuro’s Macro Guide for WoW 2.0

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=44757854&sid=1

MACRO BASICS 2.0:

Bag and Bagslots: Yes, these can still be used in 2.0, but the format is a bit different. Format example:

/use x y
Where x is the bag location, and y is the slot within the bag (this part has not changed for 2.0).
X = Bags; [4][3][2][1][0]. They count from 4 to 0, LEFT to RIGHT. 0 is your backpack.
Y = Slots inside the bag count, from top left to bottom right;

Inventory / Equipped Item Slot Numbers: This is relatively unchanged, with the exception of being able to use the slot by name now, as seen in the [equipped] function below.

Inventory Slots usable with the [equipped] function: This argument can either be an Inventory Slot (see below), an item type, or an item subtype.

Examples of /equip and /use:

Action-Bars and Action-Bar Slots: This function is unchanged, although its usefulness seems greatly reduced.

Macro Icon Selection: You may now utilize the “#show” string to display any desired <spell> or <item> when coupled with the “?” macro icon. If you select the “?” icon for your “/castsequence” or “/castrandom” macros it will display the next spell to be cast from the sequence. For example:

This will display the Cold Blood icon and the cooldown timer for Cold Blood on your macro button if the “?” was selected as your macro icon. The first click will cast Cold Blood while the second click will cast Eviscerate. However, the macro icon will always show the Cold Blood icon.

In this example:

/castsequence Cold Blood, Eviscerate
Cold Blood and its cooldown timer are displayed. However, after Cold Blood has been clicked it will switch to display the Eviscerate icon, as it is next in the sequence. Again, this assumes you assign the “?” icon for your macro.

Buttons for Macros; Left-Click, Right-Click, Mouse-Over, etc.
For 2.0 we now have the ability to specify which button will make our macro perform which action. This can help allow more versatility in our macros, and thus save action-bar space.

The button designations are: button 1 = left-click, button 2 = right-click, button 3 = center-click. See the wow.wiki link above for more button option info. Designating the buttons should appear similar to the following:

/cast [button:2] Riposte; Sinister Strike
This will cast Sinister Strike with a “normal” left-click, or Riposte with a right-click.

We can also designate the “target=mouseover” option, saving us the need to select a new target for our ability, such as in the following macro:

/cast [target=mouseover] Blind
This should cast Blind on the target your mouse cursor is currently over. However, this will require pressing the macro button, as opposed to simply clicking on the macro since your mouse will be hovering over the target, not the macro button…

Macro Modifiers; The Shift / Control (Ctrl) / Alternate (Alt) Keys
Your macro functions may be modified by designating a key-push to change the action(s) performed when the macro is clicked. For example:

Hold <Shift> and it's a Cold Blood -> Backstab with one click. Hold down <Alt> for a Cold Blood -> Eviscerate with one click. The <Ctrl> key gives you a Cold Blood -> Mutilate. If you don't press anything then it will default to a regular Backstab (as seen in the first line).

NOTE: To fully utilize the <Shift> Modifier, you need to download an Addon created by Slouken. This may be found in the following link – third post down.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=51038902

[ Post edited by Necrovaris ]

Necrovaris

5. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:49:53 PST

STEALTH MACROS:

MASHABLE STEALTH MACRO
This macro allows you to mash the stealth button without de-stealthing yourself.

/cast [nostealth] Stealth
MASHABLE SHADOWMELD MACRO

/cast [nocombat,nostealth] shadowmeld
MASHABLE STEALTH or SHADOWMELD
This macro will cast Stealth (mashable) if unstealthed, and will cast Shadowmeld if Stealth is on cooldown and you are out of combat. Once Stealth CD is up it will toggle you back to stealth form.

STEALTH (Spammable) -> CHEAP SHOT

/cast [stealth] Cheap Shot; Stealth
STEALTH IF NOT IN COMBAT -> VANISH IF IN COMBAT
In theory, this one will allow you to mash for stealth. If you are not stealthed and not in combat then it should stealth you. If you are in combat then it should Vanish you.

/cast [combat] Vanish; [nostealth] Stealth
GOUGE -> RE-STEALTH

/cast [combat] Gouge; Stealth
GOUGE -> RE-STEALTH -> CHEAP SHOT -> SINISTER STRIKE
Since the cast sequence will stop until it is able to cast each item, this should re-stealth you (if possible) following the Gouge. Otherwise, it will reset after 20 seconds.

/castsequence reset=20 Gouge, Stealth, Cheap Shot, Sinister Strike
Alternatively: If you're already stealthed, it hits with a CS opener. If you're not stealthed and in combat you gouge, unless it's on CD. This will also allow you to restealth without having to hit a target with gouge first. It will automatically reset to gouge if you change targets.

/cast reset=target/combat [nostealth,combat] Gouge; [nocombat, nostealth] stealth; [stealth] cheap shot

Necrovaris

6. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:50:29 PST

AMBUSH / BACKSTAB MACROS:

WEAPON-SWAP then AMBUSH
Hit it once to switch to a dagger, then spam it to cast Ambush as soon as it's ready. I generally use this in conjunction with the Weapon-Swap then Backstab macro below. This allows me to toggle back to my main weapon after I de-stealth.

WEAPON-SWAP then BACKSTAB
Assuming you don’t have a dagger equipped, this will swap your weapon on first click, then cast Backstab AND swap weapon back on the second click.

AMBUSH IF STEALTHED -> BACKSTAB IF NOT

cast [stealth] Ambush; Backstab
Or...

/cast [nostealth] Backstab; Ambush
MASHABLE “ATTACK” -> BACKSTAB
This will auto-attack even if the requirements for backstab are not met (60 Energy, behind the target) without toggling off the auto-attack.

SINISTER STRIKE -> EVISCERATE MACROS:

SINISTER STRIKE x5 -> EVISCERATE
This will cycle through 5 Sinister Strike’s and then Eviscerate. As a “castsequence”, it will not Eviscerate until all 5 Sinister Strikes have been fired off, and it will reset if you change targets.

/cast [button:2] Eviscerate; Sinister Strike

RIPOSTE MACROS:

SINISTER STRIKE + AUTO-RIPOSTE MACROS
This macro will begin the auto-attack, as well as randomly perform Sinister Strike or Riposte. The potential drawback of “SS lockup” or “missed Riposte” is very small due to the relatively-fast (6 sec) cooldown of Riposte combined with the 50/50 chance of casting either spell.

Or...

SINISTER STRIKE (Left-Click) -> RIPOSTE (Right-Click)

/cast [button:2] Riposte; Sinister Strike
FOR TROLLS: SINISTER STRIKE -> RIPOSTE -> BERSERKING

Necrovaris

7. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:51:01 PST

COLD BLOOD MACROS:

COLD BLOOD -> EVISCERATE
This will cast both Cold Blood and Eviscerate with a single click! Be sure to use the "?" macro icon to show Cold Blood cooldown.

This one will cast Cold Blood on the first click, then Eviscerate on the second click. Again, use the "?" macro icon to show the Cold Blood cooldown.

COLD BLOOD (Left-Click) -> EVISCERATE (Right-Click)

/cast [button:2] Eviscerate; Cold Blood
SINISTER STRIKE x5 -> COLD BLOOD -> EVISCERATE
This macro will start the auto-attack, cast Sinister Strike five times to generate 5 combo points, then cast Cold Blood, and finally cast Eviscerate. This will NOT check for a cooldown on Cold Blood, therefore I recommend using the “?” macro icon and #show Cold Blood so you can monitor your Cold Blood cooldown.

[u]l#show Cold Blood
/startattack
/castsequence reset=180 Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Cold Blood, Eviscerate[/ul]
COLD BLOOD -> MUTILATE
A few words of caution: you may want to make sure your Cold Blood -> Mutilate is performed on a stunned target, and while your target is poisoned...

COLD BLOOD -> BACKSTAB (Shift) / EVISCERATE (Alt) / MUTILIATE (Ctrl)
Hold <Shift> and it's a Cold Blood -> Backstab with one click. Hold down <Alt> for a Cold Blood -> Eviscerate with one click. The <Ctrl> key gives you a Cold Blood -> Mutilate, also one click. If you don't press anything then it will default to a regular Backstab (as seen in the first line). Alternatively, you may substitute Backstab with Sinister Strike, Mutilate, etc.

[ul/cast [modifier:shift/alt/ctrl] Cold Blood; Backstab
/stopcasting
/cast [modifier:shift] Backstab; [modifier:alt] Eviscerate; [modifier:ctrl] Mutilate[/ul]

HEMORRHAGE & GHOSTLY STRIKE MACROS:

GHOSTLY STRIKE -> HEMORRHAGE x5
This will cast Ghostly Strike, followed by Hemorrhage five times. It will also reset after 20 seconds (the cooldown for Ghostly Strike).

/castsequence reset=20 ghostly strike, hemorrhage, hemorrhage, hemorrhage, hemorrhage, hemorrhage
…alternatively you may “/castrandom”, although this has been found to be less useful.

/castrandom Ghostly Strike, Hemorrhage
GHOSTLY STRIKE -> SINISTER STRIKE x4 -> EVISCERATE
This will cast Ghostly Strike, followed by Sinister Strike, then Eviscerate. Please note that it will reset if you change targets, but if Ghostly Strike is still on cooldown (20 seconds) this macro may lock up.

/castsequence reset=target Ghostly Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Eviscerate
SINISTER STRIKE (Left-Click) -> HEMORRHAGE (Right-Click)

/cast [button:2] Hemorrhage; Sinister Strike
HEMORRHAGE (Left-Click) -> EVISCERATE (Right-Click)

/cast [button:2] Eviscerate; Hemorrhage

EXPOSE ARMOR / CHEAP SHOT / ETC. -> WITHOUT BREAKING GOUGE / SAP / BLIND MACROS:

This has been going around for a while now. Here is a good Forum Thread on the subject, although it is from 1.0, the theory is still good.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=28327783&sid=1

In summary, it shows a macro and steps to follow. The 2.0 version should be something similar to this (starting with a sapped, gouged or blinded target):

However, it seems that occasionally after EA is fired off an attack will still “sneak” in there. To prevent this, you can turn away from your target or try swapping weapons to stop the attack. Insert the name of your ranged weapon.

Cheap Shot would work like this:

Another thing that seems to work is if you manually unsheath your ranged weapon (default key is Z), then use your macro. Testing has shown that so long as your ranged weapon is in your hand when you Expose Armor, it will not break your controlling spell.

Please note that these macros are “unreliable”, and require some practice, skill, and finesse to pull off properly.

Necrovaris

8. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:51:38 PST

SLICE AND DICE MACROS:

SLICE AND DICE (Left-Click) -> EVISCERATE (Right-Click)

/cast [button:2] Eviscerate; Slice and Dice
SINISTER STRIKE x5 -> SLICE AND DICE
This will generally spam SS until you get 5cps, then it will fire off Slice & Dice. I understand die-hard raiders use this stuff…

SLICE AND DICE + BLADE FLURRY = FAST!
So this sequence will give you some speedy attacks, then build up to 5cps before it Eviscerates.

SLICE AND DICE + COLD BLOOD
So this sequence will give you some speedy attacks and build up to 5cps before it fires off a Cold Blood -> Eviscerate!

CHEAP SHOT -> SLICE AND DICE
It will require 2 presses, and I'm not sure it's possible to do fast enough before you shift out of stealth. If you put this one on the stealth bar make sure that you have it on the same slot on the regular bar.

/castsequence reset=target/combat Cheap Shot, Slice and Dice

“I WANNA KILL!” MACROS:

WHIRLWIND OF DEATH (aka "I.W.I.N. Button")
Blade Flurry -> Evasion -> Adrenalin Rush -> Sinister Strike
You can reorder the BF/Eva/AR based on how you want to start your combat,

SO YA WANNA PLAY NASTY, DO YA?
Yeah, this one will take a bit of tweaking but just imagine the possibilities. Load up your StunWatch and practice your timing. And here they didn’t want us to be able to “automate” our responses. /Thanks for the /castsequence!

/castsequence reset=target Cheap Shot, Gouge, Stealth, Cheap Shot, Sinister Strike, Cold Blood, Eviscerate, Vanish, Cheap Shot, Gouge, Sinister Strike, Sinister Strike, Eviscerate
Feel free to add to and modify this one – just don’t use it against me! ;-)

PREMEDITATION -> CHEAP SHOT:
This will fire off Premeditation then Cheap Shot with one button press!

PREMEDITATION -> SHADOWSTEP -> CHEAP SHOT

MOUSEOVER BLIND!
Hover your mouse cursor over a second target, hit this macro, and never have to switch from your original target.

/cast [target=mouseover] Blind
MORE COWBELL!
Left-Click for Sinister Strike x5 -> Evis
Right-Click for BF -> Eva -> AR

Necrovaris

9. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:52:14 PST

HEALING / BANDAGE / FOOD MACROS:

THE EVER-REQUESTED BANDAGE-SELF MACRO:

/use [target=player] Heavy Runecloth Bandage
BLIND -> BANDAGE SELF MACRO
I believe this will require 2 button pushes.

Alternatively, you can try this one, but I believe this will still require 2 button pushes.

/castsequence blind, heavy runecloth bandage
GOUGE -> BANDAGE SELF MACRO
I believe this will also require 2 button pushes.

/castsequence gouge, heavy runecloth bandage
USE APPROPRIATE BANDAGES:
Clicking this macro will bandage yourself using the bandage that is appropriate for your location - i.e. battleground bandages if you are in battlegrounds, or a “normal” bandage if you are outside the battleground. You may substitute a bag/slot instead of the normal bandage name, or simply change the name of the bandage to fit your skill.

Please Note: I have found that this will occasionally default to your "Normal" bandage instead of using the battleground bandage.

USE APPROPRIATE FOOD:
This macro will eat the appropriate battleground food if you are in battlegrounds, or “normal” food (designated by name, or bagslot – as shown in this example) if you are outside the battlegrounds.

USE POTION:
Um… yeah. You could also insert the name of the potion you care to use here.

/use 0 1

THISTLE TEA MACROS:
This will drink your Thistle Tea then follow up with a Cold Blood and Eviscerate.

Alternatively, you could designate a Button-Click for using your Thistle Tea...

For the above macro you would left-click through your Premed -> Ambush -> Evis, then a quick right-click to use your Tea, then back to left-click for Backstab -> Sinister Strike -> Hemorrhage.

The nice thing about this macro is that you could simply use it for Thistle Tea at ANY TIME by just Right-clicking the Macro! Saves yourself one action bar space that would have been used for your Tea.

Want the Thistle Tea integrated so you don’t have to think? Ok, this should work…

/Castsequence reset=target Premeditation, Ambush, Eviscerate, Thistle Tea, Backstab, Sinister Strike, Hemorrhage

MOUNT MACROS:

MOUNT / DISMOUNT (right-click) -> STEALTH & CHEAP SHOT (left-click):

DISMOUNT -> STEALTH -> CHEAP SHOT MACRO:
This will mount you, or dismount if you are mounted, Stealth if not stealthed (mashable), then cast Cheap Shot if stealthed! Replace the mount name with your actual mount.

Alternatively:

MOUNT / DISMOUNT + 3 ITEM SWAP (For Equipping Mount Speed Items):
One press will switch your items and mount / dismount you. Note that activating the macro while moving will switch your items without summoning the mount, and you’ll be running around in your riding gear. Replace the container locations with the locations of your trinket, riding gloves, and spur-boots. Replace the mount name with your actual mount.

RANDOM MOUNT + DISMOUNT MACRO
For those who like random mounts, here's a macro to choose a random mount and still be able to subsequently dismount. Insert the name(s) of your mounts in the appropriate place(s).

Be careful that you don’t max out the character limit (255 characters). Neuro has indicated that there will be a /dismount command added with Burning Crusade.

Necrovaris

10. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:52:51 PST

USE TRINKET MACROS:
I generally use the Equipped Macro Icon addon for these so that I can see exactly what trinkets I have equipped, but I am waiting for the addon to be debugged for 2.0, as it currently interferes with Stealth-Bar toggling.

These lines can also be added to the beginning of other macros, for that “trinket boost” prior to putting the smack down!

Use Trinket in Top Slot:

/Use 13
Use Trinket in Bottom Slot:

/Use 14
Example of a “use a Trinket by name, then cast a spell” Macro:
This macro requires 2 button pushes to activate the item and the spell. The "#show" at the beginning will display the item named and its cooldown - whether or not the item is actually equipped (I believe it is grayed out if it is not equipped). Be sure to use the “?” macro icon.

Alternatively, you may use a “/castsequence” and insert the item name:

/castsequence reset=120 <item name>, Blade Flurry

APPLYING POISONS / SHARPENING STONES MACROS:
Useful for applying poisons with a few clicks. No need to open your Character window.

This first one will apply poison to the MH with a ctrl-click and to the OH with an alt-click. It will also show how many doses of poison you have left in your bags.

This second macro will apply your poison and to the Main Hand (16) if you left-click the macro. It will apply your poison to the Off Hand (17) if you right-click the macro. It will also show how many doses of poison you have left in your bags.

For applying a different poison to each weapon:

All credit goes to Lir on the US servers.
Original post: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=55007658&sid=1

Necrovaris

11. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:53:48 PST

Original Content by Coolgerb
Rogue 2.0.3 talent builds
Due to the ever evolving nature of tallent builds within WoW, and the impossibility of continually updating the thread I feel that a link to the original thread would be much more appropriate.
Please Visit http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=108731027&sid=1 for evrything to do with tallent builds.

Original Content By Tardara
A comprehensive guide to Mutilate

Mutilate is a 41-point talent in the Assassination tree. The in-game tooltip reads:

Instant
Requires Daggers
Instantly attacks with both weapons for an additional 44/63/88/101 with each weapon. Damage is increased by 50% against Poisoned targets. Must be behind the target. Awards 2 combo points.

Facts:
- Any poison that applies a debuff to your target triggers the 50% increased damage. This includes Wound Poison, Mind-numbing, Crippling, Deadly, all hunter Stings and Blind. This is especially important for encounters where mobs appear to be immune to poisons, such as The Curator (Deadly doesn't work, Wound does).
- It is more efficient to use a slow dagger in the off-hand, as well as the main hand.
- Mutilate does roughly 2% more damage than Backstab, but generates 48% more combo points than Backstab (source: http://www.wowwiki.com/Mutilate_vs_Backstab)
- Mutilate builds are viable raiding builds, contrary to what some people might say (if you want to see for yourself, check the spreadsheet found on http://www.bleedo.net/rogue/).
- Mutilate only reaches it's full potential when mobs are poisoned it, meaning builds focused on Mutilate don't fare well against mobs that can not be poisoned, such as Elementals.
- Mutilate builds don't give you alot of freedom in spending combo points, due to the 41 points ones needs to invest in the Assassination tree.
- Mutilate's critical strike chance is calculated as follows. Let's assume you have a critical strike chance of 15%, and you have 5 points invested in Malice. That puts your critical strike chance at 20%. Each attack when you use Mutilate has a 20% chance to crit, and there's a 4% (20%*20%) chance that both will crit, so the possibility that at least one of the attacks will crit (and trigger Seal Fate) is 36% (20%+20%-4%).

The 2 main Mutilate builds:

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?0253001055021325010510053052000050000000000000000000000000000000000 (Raid-/Arena-oriented) (the 5 points in Lightning Reflexes can be spent in Improved Gouge and/or Improved SS)

Discussion: Gouge is a 4 second incapacitate at 45 energy.
That means 1 point in Imp. Gouge makes it an energy neutral Combo Point.
3 Points extend the duration to 5.5 seconds, that means that on average you gain 10 energy points from a gouge - that's fairly usefull, and the real strength of putting points into it if you can spare them. Worst case you have 2 ticks for 4 energy during a gouge, best case you get 3 ticks for 60 energy - that's highly unlikely with 0 or 1 points in Imp. Gouge.

And when comparing them to dodge: you can get higher dodge values by improving your gear. Sure 5% dodge looks very juicy right now with the dampened dodge values we're running around with when we hit 70; but you cannot (ever) make gouge an energy neutral CP (or a CP +10 average energy) without Imp Gouge, no matter what gear you use. Bear that in mind.

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/rogue/talents.html?0253001055021325010513000000000000000000000000502000000000000000000 (Add the remaining talent points to any tree you wish)

Mutilate's issues
- Positioning: you must be behind the target in order to use Mutilate. This can be a nuissance at times, but remember that no monster/player can parry/block from behind, so it's not really a nuissance.
- Control: Mutilate builds offer a medium amount of control, situated between that of a Combat build and a Subtlety build.

The true strength of Mutilate, however, comes from the tree it is situated in. You will have access to a number of useful talents, such as

- Quick Recovery, which helps reduce downtime while grinding, allows you to regain more health faster when you have to bandage in dungeons/raids at certain bosses, takes care of energy loss due to dodges/blocks/parries
- Fleet-Footed, which kicks in more often than you'd think (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b146/Lancelot1/WoWScrnShot_021507_195105.jpg) and stacks with Camouflage, granting movement speed equal to up to 92% of normal movement speed while stealthed
- Seal Fate, which is arguably one of the best talents, allowing for insane combo point generation when paired with Mutilate.
- Vigor, a very nice all-around talent, worth the point you spend on it even without the Nightslayer set bonus.
- Find Weakness - which is especially nice when paired with Improved Kidney Shot, granting a total 19% increase in damage.

Most of these talents aren't accessible with your average Combat/Subtlety build, because those usually restrict you to (give or take) 17 points in the Assassination tree.

I don't think this post is quite that comprehensive yet (or worth a link in a sticky, since Vaneras kindly asked us to reduce the number of stickies), which is why I'm asking the Rogue community to help. Please post any information I have omitted that you consider useful, and I'll do my best to keep the main post edited.

Thanks for reading,
Tardara

[ Post edited by Necrovaris ]

Necrovaris

12. Re: Ultimate Rogue Guide - Part 2 - Advanced 03/03/2007 02:54:20 PST

End of Part 2 - For Now
Well after taking around 9 or 10 threads and condensing them down to just 2 it should free up some sticky space in the Rogue forum, as and when needed a third thread will be made with any information that arises in the future.

Hopefully after reading these 2 threads you will have a better understanding of how to play a Rogue in general and have picked up some good information.

Thanks for reading.
Necrovaris

[ Post edited by Necrovaris ]