5/8/48 - Retribution - Focus PvE

Goal - Filling DPS spot in RAIDS


Areas in need of improvement.

a) I feel that it should be possible that in addition to judgement of the crusader I should also be able to put up judgement of wisdom or judgement of light myself so I do not need to interrupt my fellow holy paladin who is tossing out critically required heals.
b) My personal contribution to DPS is good, but I feel abit dependant on windfury, but I don't really see this as a big issue since warriors and rogues are in the same boat.

Talents in need of change

1) SoC doesn't scale as well with warrior gear as SoB does, nor does it scale with haste rating at all . This needs to be adressed.
2) For PvE, the holydamage component of judgement of the crusader is completely wasted for the rest of the raid and the actuall seal itself is completely useless in nearly all situations for any spec (See -> Seal of weapon skill).
3) The holydamage component of sanctity aura offers NO benefit for my party and basically makes it the only somewhat selfish Paladin aura, which doesn't fit with the rest of the class/aura's.
4) Improved retribution aura is trash.
5) There are 5 points basically wasted by having to spec into protection in order to obtain +3% spell/melee hit. Some change towards either of those first 2 talents would be appreciated.

Spec: PvE Retribution with kings - 5/11/45 - 25man raiding spec

Areas in need of improvement
I think all aspects of the retribution paladin needs improvement. The worst is probably: Mana inefficient abilities, no way of gaining back mana like shamans. Lack of visible group utlity, too low personal dps (competitive with the correct group setup only present in raids), PvP (too easy to lock down, vulnerable to everything), and luckbased combat. Also, auras provide no real support to the group, unlike totems, which provide very powerfull buffs.

Talents which needs to be changed
Seal of Command - This talented seal should be number 1 choice when it comes to dps. It's outdated, it sucks and it's luckbased. Something should be done to it: Improved scaling from melee stats since SD is going away. Remove the PPM nature of the seal, so it scales with haste too, it is so inferior to Seal of Blood because of that. Seal of Blood should be an alternate choice, not the one and only choice for PvE dps. Also, the judgement for Command is just stupid, it only deals like 400 damage and costs a bunch of mana. Remove the double damage on stuns and raise the base damage

Repentance - This talent has to be the worst 31pt talent in the whole game. It offers very little in PvP, nothing in solo play, but a very lacking CC in 5mans. Warriors have Mortal strike in this place. In place of this should be something to either enhance group utility, or as an active way of regaining mana. Chainpotting is NOT an option in arena play.

Lay on Hands - This skill is pretty useless unless its talented. Even then, you use it you have to ask yourself if you want to sacrifice all your healing power or dps power to save 1 person one time. This ability is only worth anything in solo play if you do an unlucky pull, or if you already is out of mana in a raid environment and have a super mana potion ready. It should be on a lower cooldown so it is usable in arena, but of course be reworked to fit the new cooldown

Blessing of Kings - This blessing should be baseline. It is a must have for all paladin specs, and there is no reason for it to be talented.

Crusader strike - This talent should apply JotC, or a debuff that benefits the raid in some way. Having to use a judgement to apply JotC nerfs damage output and therefore not a good choice in smallscale play (solo/5man) because mobs have very little hp, and the damage gain from the judgement is not bigger than a damaging judgement would give.

Auras - Something needs to be done to those spells. They offer no real support to anyone, pretty much useless. Sanctity Aura should be changed to 3% or 5% total damage to show that it actually benefits anyone. Merge resistance auras, and merge devotion + retribution aura to free up some of the useless auras.

Seals/judgement in General - For a melee hybrid, this class is too vulnerable to counterspell and silence effects. I think seal and judgement should be non-spell abilities, so it doesn't become unavailable when counterspelled/silenced. Also, Seal dps suffers double damage reduction from avoidance. If white hit doesnt hit, then there is no seal. 1% dodge for enemy is overall 2% less damage from seals, and 1% from rest. % reduction to physical as well as magic damage both affect seal damage

Sanctified Seals (For pvp) - Somewhere I feel this talent has to protect the blessings of the ret paladin, or at least Blessing of Freedom. BoF is a HUGE part of ret paladins' PvP play, since we have no snares or speed increases, the freedom of movement is all we rely on.

I know this was more than just five, but there is so much work to be done to paladins.

List your primary talent tree:
Currently Retribution, but also often Protection.

List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...
Raiding and a bit of PvP.

Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement:
Paladins needs to be made an unique type of damagedealer - doing physical damage is and should remain the domain of rogues and warriors. Turning Crusader Strike back towards scaling with spelldamage, adding in a talent that grants spelldamage based on melee stats, and maybe even allowing Crusader Strike to deal (at least partial) holy damage would be the way to go. This would make spelldamage a favorable stat, supporting our dps/healing/tanking hybrid nature.

As for holy specs, they need more interactivity and a broader spectrum of healing tools.

List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)
Seal of the Crusader - the judgement is fine, but what the heck is the seal good for?
Seal of Justice - make the judgement automatically cause a stun or at least a cast interrupt for 2 seconds.
Devotion Aura - the armor gain is pitifull, even when improved. Make it either grant defense rating, or something else that justifies 5 talent points.
Redoubt - becomes unreliable and next to obsolete at higher levels of gear. Should remain beneficial all the time.
Turn Undead - how about a higher rank of that, allowing the paladin to fear a couple undeads at once? We're their bane, they should run away if not already crumble to ashes when we come close.

Primary Talent tree
Retribution

Content I primarily pursuing and mostly enjoy
PvP

Areas you feel are most in need of improvement
The whole Paladin class. I for one, yes, me, I'm speaking from my vision now, believe that the Paladin should be a Melee healer. They should, in fact, be primary a Melee class, even when it comes to PvE raiding. Right now the Paladin class only stands in the back like any other Priest, Druid or Shaman, what happend to "All classes should be unique".

List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change

"Holy Light" - Change this so that it is an instant cast spell with a Cooldown and can effect Undead targets for damage.

"Flash of Light" - Remove it.

"Turn Undead" - Make it affect both Undead and Demons and rename it.

"Seal of the Crusader" - Change it, somehow, make it anything other then what it is now. I for one only use it for Judging and train my Weapon skill.

"Holy Talents, all of them" - Change the whole tree to better reflect this class to what it really is.

I appologise if I broke the rules of posting, I'm just angry and hungry.

- reserved -

Untill I get some spare time. =p

/sigh at the Avatar

been 70 for a year now, anwho.

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Q u o t e:

• List your primary talent tree(s), i.e. Holy/Disc.

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Holy

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Q u o t e:

List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...

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PVP, arena

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Q u o t e:

Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement (you may list a maximum of three issues and each issue should be described in one or two sentences).

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Getting completely shut down by counterspell is terrible.

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Q u o t e:

List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)

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Divine Illumination removed/redesigned/greatly improved.
Having our bubble dispelled, needs to be changed back.
Illumination back to100%

Spec:

Protection

Primarily pursuing:

Raiding

Areas in need of improvement:

Retribution itemization/mechanics - Spelldamage is lackluster post 2.3.2.

Off-tanking as Protection - It's currently very mana intensive without any way of regaining enough mana to off-tank effectively.

Lack of emergency skills to Protection - Aside from Lay on Hands, there are no emergency buttons protection paladins can really use.

Skills/talents/abilities that need improvement/change:

Seal of Blood/Vengance - Both factions wants both seals

Cleanse - Due to stacking debuffs, it's very ineffective in PvP

Holy Shock - Hardly used in healing, would be desirable for Protection and possibly Retribution.

Avenging Wrath - Too easily dispelled/spellstealed

Blessing of Sanctuary - Currently, the damage reduction is calculated in a way that makes the reduction very insignificant.

Primary Talent Tree:
5/11/45 Retribution

Focus: PvE (25-man raids)

Areas in need of improvement:
- Raid desirability
- retribution-specific blessing?
- itemisation (no str+crit+intel plate looting in raids apart from Tier 4/5/6)

Specific ability that needs a look at:
- sanctity aura tooltip
- avenging wrath (dangerous to use because of forbearance)

Spec: Protection/Retribution
Doing: 10 man raids and heroics

I think that paladin tanks are too vulnerable to low damage taken. We require a lot of incoming damage to keep our mana regain going.
So far I'm only equipped in Karazhan and heroic/normal 5 man gear, but I'm still taking too low damage in a lot of Karazhan encounters, to keep my mana up. Zul'Aman isn't a problem yet, but I'm expecting it will be. Warriors and Druids at this gear level doesn't generally have rage problems in my experience.
This mean that even though we have a great potential for threat output, it's hard to keep it going in pre 25 man instances, because of the high mana restrictions.

An other problem is the high requirements to a new Paladin tanks gear. You need to collect a list of very specific gear in order to be an effective tank.
Warriors and Druids also have specific gear that benefit them a lot more than other, but their basic abilities are a lot better, so they have an easier time starting up.
The real problem about that is that paladin need to work a lot on their gear before they can begin raiding.

When geared up Paladin tanks have a high block/second rate, which gives them a theoretically great potential to avoid crushing blows, but because both the duration and cooldown of Holy Shield is 10 seconds, the lag opens you up occasionally. For example:
10/23 22:10:32.500 You gain Holy Shield.
10/23 22:10:42.375 Terestian Illhoof hits you for 2942. (crushing)
10/23 22:10:42.406 Holy Shield fades from you.

Skills I would like to see change to:
(I added a few suggestions even though they're unwanted - not because I think they perfect solutions, but because I think my solutions helps explaining, what the flaws of the abilities are.)

Spiritual Attunement:
Doesn't always pay you as much as you need, even when you're not over-geared.
Make a high-tier talent that either (1) adds a small scaling of this ability from gear, or (2) simply improves the ability, possibly by regains mana from simply taking damage, or (3) re-allows overhealing to generate mana.
Holy Shield:
Cooldown/lag issues.
Also, a petty 5% extra block chance on this ability would help new Protadins extremely much.
Redoubt:
Nice for aoe pulls, but once you have enough avoidance it doesn't typically do anything against 3 mobs or less.
If changed in a creative way, this talent might be the solution to the cd/lag issues on Holy Shield. Well, at least make it do something.
Reckoning:
It's stupid to have an ability that scales backwards this badly. The extra attacks can also be unwanted in some cases, as they increase the enemy's chance of scoring a parry. You can't really afford to spend item value on expertise, since Paladin tanks already rely on a lot of different stats.
Make it a ~50% chance to proc on your parries, so you would actually want avoidance. Maybe add a bit of extra expertise to the talent.
Divine Shield:
Seems like an ability a protection paladin would use, but doing so will often wipe your group.
Since many Protection Paladins only use this ability for clearing of debuffs, why not make an ability with shared cd, that does just that? No immunity - no agro reset. Fair trade?

Spec - Retribution

Focus - Varying between raiding / arena

Problems in arena:
- Mana. My mana pool as retribution is way too low, even if I'd run around in full "pure" retri gear with +int on it, and specc for 10% more. It is too easily burned away (i.e. Mana burn / mana drain / hunter sting).
- Unreliability. I'm too based around pure luck. This wont let me play with an healer (in 2v2), and it is because of this I have mana problems too, since I'm gonna be the one healing when needed.
- VS healers. I got 2 interrupts, with too long cooldowns and too high resist rate (at least 25% on most classes with resist meta), and I don't have any healing reduce ability. Vindication helped a little, but not enough. Short said, healers can heal just however they want vs me.


Spells/talents:
- Seal of Crusader. It is too unreliable, so it is very crappy to have to rely on this seal, in lack of anyone better. (Make a new talent increase the chance to proc by, lets say 5/10/15%)
- Holy Light. It is not worth its mana unless you're holy. So either make it a holy talent, or make the baseline better (with a cooldown) and no judge + the possibility to specc it to the usual state as holy (merge with another talent)
- Repetence. As we doesnt have much interrupts, lower the cooldown of this one.
- For PvE. a new talent that would make us desired in the melee group is needed, something thats only good for melees in the same party.
- Vengeance. A paladin needs to get his vengeance going. Facing people with heavy resiliance will lower the chance of keeping it up (though it is easier now). A talent which would make our melee attacks ignoring 5/10/15% of the opponents resiliance is fitting.

Primary Talent Tree: Holy

Content Primarily pursuing: PvP


Brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement

# Mana Drain and Mana burn issue -
Currently paladins have no real counter to Mana Burn or Vipersting/Drain Mana except line of sight, because of the amount of debuffs that hunters are able to put on a target due to pet poisons and the number of dots a warlock can put, cleanse just isnt enough anymore. We need something to counter mana burn and cleanse needs to be looked into.

# Holy Shock healing - as it is now, this spell does way too little healing for the mana spent or the cooldown, perhaps it could gain a percentage increase from spellcrit or add the coefficient it gets from +healing

# Mortal Strike / Wound Poison - Healers do not have any means of countering this. If a target is filled with 5 stacks of wound poison or mortal strike, a paladin is very vulnerable because he can be crowd-controlled easily aswell as counterspelled by a felhunter or mage... restoration druids dont have this problem and therefore have an advantage on healing a target with wound poison/mortal strike, perhaps this can be looked into, such as a talent or buff that can be placed on target negating healing debuffs for x seconds, but can be dispelled (for example)

Five spells/abilities/talents I feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order I feel each is most in need of attention:

#Turn Undead (Should work on demons in pvp)

#Cleanse (Needs to be improved)

#Holy Shock (healing wise)

#Avenging Wrath (If a similar spell could be implemented that benefitted holy paladins, increasing healing done, but giving them the forbearance debuff.

#Holy Wrath (if this could be given a use in pvp)

Spec: Currently Holy / Prot, prefer (and for a long time was) Ret / Holy
Favourite Content: Raiding & PvP



Areas to improve 1: Heavy reliance on procs. We need Seal of Command to proc to do our best damage. We need Seal of Vengeance to proc to keep aggro on the boss. We need to crit in order to gain the Vengeance effect, and the same reliance on procs goes for Reckoning, Seal of Justice, etc etc etc.

Areas to improve 2: Vulnerability to spell silence / lockdown. Most noticeable as a Holy paladin: given that practically every single spell I can cast is a Holy one, if my Holy spell school is locked down, I'm just a free HK (honourable kill... yeah right...). And no, shorter silence / lockdown duration isn't a solution these days.

Areas to improve 3: Ret itemisation. I'm expecting with the v2.3.2 changes and so on that this is going to be improved, but I thought I'd mention it anyway, especially given how much the new gear seems to focus on +melee hit (we need some, but only about +9%).



Specific Idea 1: Seal of Command is currently too random, and benefits not at all from haste rating, because of its "proc per minute" nature. Given that this is supposed to be our primary DPS seal, making it more reliable and / or making it benefit from haste rating would help no end.

Specific Idea 2: Faction imbalance - Seal of Blood is currently better at PvE DPS than Seal of Command, whilst Seal of Vengeance is an excellent tanking seal than horde paladins don't have access to. Giving access to SoB for the Alliance & SoV for the Horde (even if under different names, ala Heroism / Bloodlust) would resolve this.

Specific Idea 3: Avenging Wrath can currently be dispelled or even spell stolen (granting the mage responsible a 30% damage increase for a short while), yet causes Forbearance. Making this removable only via Mass Dispell would let paladins use it in PvP and make it the true DPS equal of Divine Shield.

Specific Idea 4: Most paladins have relatively little +spell hit, yet one of our key DPS & aggro abilities, the Judgement spell, requires it. Making it use +melee hit (or even having it vary depending on the seal being judged) would be a great help, because we're much more likely to have +melee hit.

Specific Idea 5: The two key tanking auras, Devotion Aura, and Retribution Aura, don't scale at all with gear, whilst the Ret Aura talent is in the Retribution talent tree (wrong place in other words). Having both of these scale with something (eg, your armour value for Dev Aura, and your spell damage for Ret Aura) would make them much more viable for tanking.

Spec: Holy / Protection
Focus: Raiding

In need of improvement (in order):
1. Protection identity. Protection pallies need a certain kind of (common raid) BOSS that they are clearly better at than any other tank (trash and/or adds will not do).
2. Lack of abilities. For a class with 3 vastly different possible areas of expertise, Paladins have nearly no out-of-the-box spells. Each and every one of the specs are very streamlined. Particularly Holy Paladins suffer from this.

Talents, spells or abilities:
1. Lay on Hands. One hour cooldowns on combat spells are not acceptable. This makes it useless.
2. Blessing of Sanctuary. Would be much better and fitting as a personal buff.
3. Redoubt. Perfectly good waste of 5 mandatory talent points.
4. Improved Devotion Aura. The base ability is too weak to justify spending 5 talent points improving it.
5. Divine Shield. It's a class defining ability, but one can't help but think it is a class defining burden rather than strength. How much is sacrificed?

Oh, and the itemization on the new protection gear - perfect. More of that, less of the current tier gear.

Primary Talent Tree - Retribution

Goal - I'd love to raid, but I have neither the time nor the willpower right now to get the necessary gear.

Main Issues -
Mana regeneration is very poor for a Retribution Paladin, and I don't think the buff to Sanctified Judgement will help enough.

Itemisation is also poor, with little to no gear available pre-Heroic that really fits us. All specs for all classes should find it doable to get gear for Heroics without having to delve into Battlegrounds, which can be exceptionally unfair if the server you arbitrarily chose 69 levels ago is rubbish at them.

Skills that need Improvement -
Sanctity Aura is far too selfish to be an aura. An adjustment to improve a wider range of damage by less % (say 5% bonus to melee damage, or 3% to all damage) would add huge value to the tree, without over-powering us as individuals.

Seal of Command is unreliable at the best of times, and far too mana-intensive. Also, the Horde only Seal of Blood is far more fit for PVE than this, leaving Alliance players out in the cold.

Repentance is a 31pt talent that is too weak to warrant a 60 second cooldown. It uses spell hit, which no Retribution Paladin stacks, and 6 seconds just isn't good enough for the cooldown.

Hammer of Justice has the same problems as Repentance, but its problems are made worse by the ridiculous levels of stun resistance available in PVP.

Seal of Wisdom is very expensive in terms of mana cost, with too little benefit, especially when you lose a good 25-30% of your damage by using it.

List your primary talent tree(s), i.e. Holy/Disc.
4/8/48 - Retribution

List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...
Raiding

Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement.
1) Mana efficiency: In solo play, PvP especially, I often find myself running out of mana after even a single opponent, leaving me weakend and vulnerable to attackers. A form of passive or active mana regen would us greatly.
2) Scaling: There are still certain abilities that require stats which are unavailable or less than optimal for our playstyle. The need for spell hit rating and spell damage is a burden we can not afford to have on our gear.
3) Small scale utility: Our biggest utility is keeping up judgements and giving 3% crit to the raid. But in 5 and 10 man groups these buffs are diminished. Our sole group buff and the fact our other buffs are raid wide make it difficult to justify a spot in the melee group, where we need to be if we wish to produce any kind of acceptable DPS.

List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)
1) Seal of Command: Our primary DPS Seal, overshadowed by a faction-restricted Seal. It's need for spell damage and lack of scaling with melee stats for the Judgement aswell as backwards scaling with Haste make it subpar to Seal of Blood. 3 Races are dissadvantaged, while only 1 reaps the benefits.
2) Crusader Strike: A lackluster strike at best, it's sole secondary effect is only usefull in raids when other paladins are around.
3) Avenging Wrath: A powerfull ability, when not dispelled or stolen. It causing Forbearance makes it a dangerous tool to use, when not used propperly it can be inneffective or present itself to be a severe weakness, using this unreliable spell prevents the use of Divine Shield and Blessing of Protection.
4) Seal of the Crusader: No one uses this Seal except to judge it or speed up weapon skill leveling.
5) Repentance: While still usefull, I feel it lacks in strength reflecting it's position in the tree. Perhaps a 30 or 20 second duration in PvE would help increase our small scale group utility.

In between 2 Mh pulls so this is more of a "reserved" type of post till the raid is over >.<

List your primary talent tree(s), i.e. Holy/Disc.

0/49/12 Protection

List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...

End game PvE raiding, Mount Hyjal and Black Temple at the moment.

Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement (you may list a maximum of three issues and each issue should be described in one or two sentences).

Lack of emergency buttons - This is the biggest flaw to this class as a progression tank and in general, affects a lot how people perceive us.

Lower base mitigation of all 3 tanks - Righteous Fury mitigates 10% less spell and 4% melee damage compared to warrior prot stance.

Bloated protection tree - compared to druids (56) and warriors (62) paladin tanking tree is the bloated with 69 often very vital talents so players have to sacrifice some important talents from prot tree in order to venture in other trees.

List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)

0/20/41 - Retribution PVP

The content i'm enjoying the most is playing Arena 5v5 as retribution specc even though we ain't very viable, had 2283 rating season 2 so I know how it feels.

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Q u o t e:
* Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement (you may list a maximum of three issues and each issue should be described in one or two sentences).

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1. Ability to not counter our enemies, while a mage can make mistakes in arena and still bring success to his team, if a ret pala screws something it's nearly byebye. Need some ANTI CC, now that blessing of sacrifice is 30 sec CD it's nearly useless and yet the blessing requires friendlies to be close so you can't be CCed, and some group utility would be nice aswell for arena, can't think of any atm.

2. Ability to not close the range between us and casters. I'm often feared away and have to run back for about 10 seconds before I reach my target again. Need some sort of tool which helps us getting closer to our targets.

3. Mana burns hurt us alot, we are melee damage dealer which requires mana. Which means we have to run alot in the open field makes us very vulnurable to mana burns. Need a way to regen it back. Atleast a decent amount so we aren't totally useless once we are oom.

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Q u o t e:
* List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)

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1. Cleanse! As retribution, this is where most of retri paladins fail, if u don't cleanse ur team you have allready lost, yet the cleanse ability is very weak with all the trash debuffs applying on your friendly target and getting CCed. Improve cleanse please.

2. Repentance! What's the point of a 31 talent point 1 minute cooldown CC? Improve it so we can use it more often in arenas with diminishing returns.

3. Seal of Command! I really hate this proc system. A main damage ability which is based on proc. Seriously what are you thinking blizzard. I expect a huge improvement here. The worse, judgement hits like 150-200 now without a single spell damage in season 3. So I am running around in seal of command rank 1 in arenas now.

4. Divine strenght (talent) merge it with improved blessing of might or something. I really hate that I can't have it with my build 0/20/41 -_-

5. Auras need a greater effect tbh, and remove the global cooldown on it while ur at it so I can switch auras between spell casts of my enemies while still damaging/cleansing. PS: make 2 hand spec reduce disarm time by 50% :)

* List your primary talent tree(s), i.e. Holy/Disc.
Retribution

* List the content you're primarily pursuing or most enjoy, i.e. Raiding, PvP, Solo, etc...
PvE DPS and PvP

* Provide a brief description of the areas you feel are most in need of improvement (you may list a aximum of three issues and each issue should be described in one or two sentences).
Mana efficiency, we require more ways to sustain our mana pool in long PvE fights via a talent or basic mechanic change (perhaps a talent for gaining mana on crit for example).
Dependency on spell damage / hit for Seal/Judgement of Command - but no availably for it though items. Either remove spell damage coefficient and increase melee component or add a talent for gaining spell damage via increasing melee based stats (such as Strength or Attack Power).
Aura and Global Cooldown, as it stands auras just are not good enough to be worth spending a global cooldown changing in PvE and PvP, normally you will go an entire PvP encounter with whatever aura you have up at the start. Changing auras to have thier own 1.0-1.5 second global cooldown (similar to shapeshifting and stances) would alleviate this problem and add more dynamics to the paladin combat system.

* List up to five specific spells/abilities/talents you feel most need change, redesign or improvement in the order you feel each is most in need of attention. (MOST to LESS)
Seal of Command -> Pure melee scaling
With change away from spell damage, heals and spell damage (ie Consecration) become very poor (to point of uselessness) -> Talents to convert Str to Spell damage or Healing for example.
Turn Undead -> Effect Demons
Tier 1 Prot Talents -> No synergy with Retribution tree, but Ret paladins are forced tot take one of them to get Precision. Swapping Toughness and Improved Devotion Aura would alleviate this somewhat.