As a mail armor engineer the only problem i really have is that I can not make the helmet i want based on which armor class I am supposed to belong to.

I fail to see the logic behind it.

If I'm not allowed to make Deathblow X11 Goggles I would at least like some logical engineering based reason for it.

"You are a mail class argument" is not based on engineering
Just to make that clear :)

A tailor warrior is perfectly able to try to tank in a dress if he so choses to.
So why can't I make something that is actually an upgrade for what I wear and the epics I have stashed in bank.

Other then that whine I like the ability to make good gold on the Khorium destroyer, +crit scope and to pick up a mote here and there.

The biggest complaint I have with Engineering is the lack of good craftable gear at max level that isn't a headpiece or a trinket - all we have is one epic gun. I'd absolutely love it if we could make epic gloves, shoulders, pants, chestpieces and more guns. Even with the added goggles, Engineering feels like its purpose is just to add to the coolness-factor, rather than actually be useful.

Bottom line: give us schematics that enable us to craft gear, and make it unique so it differs from Tailoring/Leatherworking/Blacksmithing, as after you've made your goggles and your flying machine, you're pretty much done and have very few goals to work towards.

Obviously I agree on the goggles. It makes no sense that the Engineer can't make any and all of the goggles. It should be his choice if he (being leatherwearer) decides to make the Tankatronics. Too bad for him he can't wear them, but it is the same for all the other recipies. How about all the helmets and boots that clothwearers can't use? They are still perfectly trainable.
This is a limitation that severely gimps Survival Hunters and Retribution Pallies. Let the Surv make the Rogue goggles if he want to, and the Retri the Ele Shaman goggles.
However, that is not a true fix. The true fix would be to include proper goggles for those specs. There is one set of goggles for Hunters... One! No option of going for AP over Agi or the other way round. No selection really.

There is a very limited variety in scopes. This could be helped a great deal if the hit scope from Molten Core got bumped up to a rep vendor and the mats changed a bit (to fit Outland). Currently it is downright impossible to get hold of it.

The reflectors need their upgrade or something. A good idea that has been wasted. That alone would get the useful fun back into Engineering.

The recent boosts to Engineering have been very nice, and it is good to see. But that doesn't mean Engineering is fixed yet. I applaud the recent work in the hopes that it won't be the last.

We need new 70 lvl in some items like goblin rocket helm etc...that was very nice at 60 but now frizzlez all the time :/

Adjust training costs 275-300 for all professions, and 360+ for the more expensive ones.

Im engi and enchanter.

Engi what i miss:

I miss some usefull things like BS have, ok i have that head piece which for me as a priest is sucky tbh, t4 is better in my oppinion.
There is only 1-2 things worth to craft for ppl, which are destroyer and scope, as a blacksmith/tailor/leather u have recipes drop in ssc/tk etc for us nothing, i know we are not as much popular as tailors but why arent we? Its cause to be an engi is not really worth much, ok new flying mount is ok thing, but be an engi just for mount suck big time.

As a enchanter i miss wands why dont we have some imba wands which u could upgrade or sell, only some low lvls, what happend with taht idea? And i miss some enchants only for myself, rings enchants is ok but only one thing for myself kinda isnt enough as well.

Atm if iw ant to earn cash on enchanting i have spam chat all the time, i cant sell anything from that...

Plz focus on giving us some usefull things for us and maybe some things to craft for ppl, to make these profs more enjoyable.

Engineering is full of win for me at the moment but end game raid drops for Engineering are still missing i think.

Include both fun and useful things like:
New jumper cables with a shorter cool down and 90% success chance, can be used in combat with a smaller chance of success and a chance to apply a strange buff to the recipient.

Bullet/Arrow makers.

Epic gun patterns.

T6/7 Equivalent goggles.

Afterburner upgrade to the epic engineering mount with small chance of mid air explosions please ;)
5 minute cool down, push the button and get 30 seconds of 500% Fly speed.

Great initiative Highlander :)

I've been an Enchanter since my first day in WoW (well, since I had level to get a profession anyway).

Levelling the profession (from 1 to 375)

Leveling enchanting, if we're talking about your main char is hard. If you don't have a good insight of game mechanics and are worried with other details like leveling and gathering gold for trainings and mounts, it becomes very hard, ... Just like it's supposed.
I'm not sure if the gaps of stats you can enchant with are on purpose or not. One could argue that they exist so an enchanter *has to* enchant other people, for me, it resulted in me having strengh on my staff for quite some time.

End-game (level 350 to 375)

Nothing to add really.

Trading (BOE craftables and service providing to other players)

Well, something really is wrong with this. Selling enchants paied all the Dark Iron Ore I needed to get the +22 intelect on Staff enchant but, since TBC came out, people expect free enchants.
Granted, most enchanters that now complain of that fact, were the same ones that were giving enchants with mats when they were leveling their skill.
I can proudly say that I wasn't one of them but, I grew tired of trying to sell enchants and having my fun cut due to random insults, twinks and beggers.
Not sure what Blizzard can do about it. Some people think that enchanting scrolls will be the ultimate panacea of enchanters. Personally, I'm already imagining the number of rants that will come, like it's Blizzard's fault that enchants (in the AH) will sell for less than the mats :)

Some people also try to come up with ways to fight scammers that keep your mats. Personally I believe that it's the fear of those scammers that some people still are able to do their profession of Enchanter (and not of Disenchanter).

Profession exclusive (BOP craftables)

Well, I understand that it's difficult to create BoP items for a profession that can suite everybody in the game. On the other hand, the ring enchants, ... I don't know, ... they feel, ... few :)
An Epic BoP wand would be great (but it would make all the palas, warriors, hunters and etc enchanters a bit mad, I'm sure.
Also, I see the BoP enchants more of a treat. They're OK (not great, not bad), they are very cheap to make and, they serve as a proff to anyone that inspects you that you're an high level enchanter.

Reagents (number of and difficulty of acquiring reagents)

The availability of reagent is directly connected with the way the game it's going.
Generally, the availability of Epics instead of high level blues is creating some strange fluctuations in the price of enchanting mats. Also, Planar Essences could be used for more things that they currently are (or the dust for less things, anyway, balance it out).

Missing craftables (does prof X miss certain things)

Yes, 2 things are missing:
- Enchant Offhand
- A improved Superior Wizard Oil (the absence of crit in it makes it a worst option than the Brilliant Version).
Considering there's nothing in Tailoring that will have an high chance of DEing into Large Brilliant Shards, ... well, Strat Ud anyone?

Wand enchantements, IMO, should be made by another profession that'snot enchanting (much like the scopes for guns).

Misc (anything else you can think of)

IMO, the turnmoils of enchanting killed it's fun for me. Now, it's not fun anymore. Sure, when Arena S3 came out, I made 1k in gold from disenchanting but, before TBC, it had more fun.
It takes quite some time until a profession like enchanting stabilizes after people start getting till it's top lvl of skill. With the anounced release cadency of new expansions, enchanting will change ( suffer?) a lot.

The great enchants before TBC were also nerfed in a way I simply can't understand. Enchants like crusader or lifesteal would be nerfed simply because both the players and their foes (either mobs or other players) had a bump in stats. As such, I can't understand the aditional nerf. It's like Blizzard went out of it's way to, not only keep the game growing but to make sure all the previous investement in a profession would be rendered totally useless.

Last but not least, I hope that Blizzard continues (and expands) to put required levels in gear that's gonna be enchanted.

The only problem I have with Engineering is that it's too "streamlined" in TBC.

No fluff remaining. No Death Ray MkII, no Super Explosive Sheep, no Shrinking Ray ++, no Bomb-Horde Dispenser, no Goblin Mortar Xtreme, nothing like that. Only boring stuff to try streamline it into a "useful" profession.

Useful doesn't matter. Fun and fluff is what Engineering is all about, with as crazy backfires as possible please. :)

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Q u o t e:
The great enchants before TBC were also nerfed in a way I simply can't understand. Enchants like crusader or lifesteal would be nerfed simply because both the players and their foes (either mobs or other players) had a bump in stats. As such, I can't understand the aditional nerf. It's like Blizzard went out of it's way to, not only keep the game growing but to make sure all the previous investement in a profession would be rendered totally useless.

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Agreed, I don't have an enchanter, but I know that the old enchants would hold a very special place for certain classes. They are already tough enuogh to get mats for (righteous orbs... GAH!), no need to nerf them. It feels like Blizzard wanted to make sure the new enchants would be better, so that people would HAVE to get new enchants. Well, if the new ones aren't good enough to match the old ones, then it is a matter of the new ones are weak and thus badly thought out.

This is my first character and I basically choose to take up enchanting as it seemed to fit "lorewise" with being a mage. This is now 2 and half years ago so some of my input might be outdated regarding lower level advancement.

Levelling the profession (from 1 to 375)
Back in the day when I started levelling Avalast I was in a constant battle to find the funds for everything more or less (I frequently had to skip a new rank or two just to get the major upgrades. I had to farm for a month to get my basic mount (Cost 100G back then) and I was constantly in need of new gear (Which I didn't buy so I was constantly undergeared unless I got lucky and was able to make an upgrade through tailoring), and lastly I had enchanting to level).

On top of that I seemed to have no luck getting drops I could earn money on via the auction house so I was very conservative with regards to disenchanting items. This is a trait I still have, though the ease with which gold can be acquired now has meant that my conservative tendencies have decreased.

But back to leveling...
Due to the lack of funds and my conservative handling of anything green, I had a hard time levelling enchanting from 1-300. I was constantly short on materials and when I finally had enough I tended to make only useful enchants (For me personally), which were few and far between (According to my recollection), so I didn't reach 300 in enchanting before long after I had reached level 60.

However once at level 60 and at enchanting 300 things became somewhat easier. New enchants were fairly easy to come buy (With the exception of +22 intellect on weapon). Ofcourse there were some that only dropped in raid instances, but those I didn't take into account.

When the level cap got raised with the release of The Burning Crusade I was daunted by the memories of how time consuming and basically expensive it had been to level enchanting, and now I would have to start again.
Well my concerns were pointless at first, as I found while levelling from 60 to 70 it was quite easy to get enough gold to make ends meet, get enough green items to level up enchanting (The abundance of Netherweave Cloth helped a lot though to cover needs for Arcane Dust, as basically everything I could craft with tailoring during the level up wasn't of any use (I used my Zandalar set nearly all the way to 70 and had a hard time to see the upgrades)).

End-game (level 350 to 375)
However this ease didn't persist. When I hit 350 in enchanting it started becoming difficult again. This was partly because at this point I couldn't any longer waste Netherweave cloth on disenchanting, and the fact that now I suddenly needed Large Prismatic Shards, which were basically only available through instancing (No other reliable source basically existed).

Back at 60 I did not regard instancing as an issue with enchanting as it wasn't a real challange to get capable groups (Well until patch 2.0.1 (The one that introduced the talent trees for The Burning Crusade) which was basically a PvP-patch. Everyone went into PvP-mania and groups became hard to come by).
But in The Burning Crusade getting groups wasn't anywhere as easy as it had been pre-2.0.1, as there was a distinct lack of key-role players (Tanks and healers). It could sometimes take days before it was possible to get a group (Even within the guild), and during level up people usually needed everything that dropped so it wasn't really a reliable source after all.

This basically meant that once I hit 350 in enchanting (At around level 64-65 I think), progression of that profession basically became very slow until level 70.
At this point the pre-endgame gearup started so again many items were needed, and if not, then it got sharded and distributed via a greed-roll (An unlucky streak could lockdown enchanting for quite some time).

After a while though shards became sufficiently easy to get that I could get the last way from 360 (Had managed to claw myself up to 360 while leveling the last few levels) to 375.
Though the last 5 points in enchanting proved very costly.

Trading (BOE craftables and service providing to other players)
When it comes to trading and enchanting it's my opinion that the only truly reliable means of getting income from the enchanting profession is actually to sell enchanting materials.

It is possible to sell enchants as a service, but currently the game doesn't really facillitate this in a handy way. Basically as an enchanter you have to go to where the market is (And this isn't the auction house for the actual enchant) which means you'll have to go to a major city and stand around spamming the trade-channel for quite some time before you start getting any income from the service-aspect of enchanting.
The amount of time spent on advertising basically means that farming is more profitable then using the primary function of your "tradeskill" to make a living.

As a result I've never really gone into the public enchanting business. I've always kept to my own guild for those purposes and as such there was no money to be earned.

There are a few BOE items that enchanters can make. These are wands (Up to level 30) and then from then on it's only Wizard- and Mana- Oils.

Profession exclusive (BOP craftables)
For enchanting there are very few of these which, combined with the difficulty of making the primary function of enchanting profitable, means enchanting is really not a very rewarding profession to take.
Only if using it as a gathering profession does it become rewarding, and even then high-level rewards require quite some work (Farming instances once all quests are done).

The self-only enchants available aren't that fantastic when it really comes down to it and doesn't give you an advantage anywhere near what other professions does. You don't have a powerful item you can craft for yourself (Similar to tailoring where there are hugely powerful self-only sets, or the very nifty alchemy trinket (And ofcourse the discovery- and bonus item system).
As a mage I can gain about 9 more damage per second (2 times 12 spellpower ring enchants) by being an enchanter compared to having tailoring and say skinning, and that is it.

Reagents (number of and difficulty of acquiring reagents)
For a first-time player enchanting isn't a good profession to take in my opinion. You can rarely afford the income loss from selling the items you find so you're suffering from lack of reagents (Unless you have a rich friend on the server who is assisting you).

Even if you do get the reagents the fact that there are many people at very high level on most servers these days mean most that lower level enchants are really not of any worth (Except to a few twinks here and there), and neither are the materials except for quick-levelling of enchanting for someone with no issues regarding funding (In other words a high level player).

So basically enchanting is a huge gold sink to level and I generally recommend not to take up that profession before you have a stabil ingame economy.

Missing craftables (does prof X miss certain things)
A thing many wish for is the ability to create scrolls or arcanums that contain the enchants until they are needed, thus taking up less space. Also this would allow for the final product of enchanting to be put through the auction house, thus making it a less time intensive craft.

Also - More self-only enchants and craftables would be appreciated, but for other slots then just rings. Trinkets, wands and neck-pieces are welcome slots for self-only enchant targets.

Lastly - Enchanting started out being the crafters of wands, but that stopped at level 30. Higher level wands would be a nice addition to the craft.

Misc (anything else you can think of)
Generally speaking enchanting is lacking quite a bit from my perspective. The primary thing that is needed in my opinion is that enchanting needs to be made more rewarding for the enchanter. Currently the only true reward comes from the ring enchants and a single trinket around level 50, and that is it. None of them are very powerful and most definately do not compare to the alchemy trinket, or to the self-only tailoring sets.


All that being said - After having gone through the process of levelling enchanting I wouldn't dream of abandoning it. But I most certainly won't level it again before I've reached the level-cap with at least one character on the realm.


- Ava

I leveled Engineering from 0, when T4 helmet refused to drop for me at Prince and i am very happy with both the tanking goggles and the DPS warrior ones. I bought the gun from another engineer cause the 375 skill was too far away still.

Now the only thing that is left to do, is the Flying Machine, which is cool, but kinda useless.

What am i going to do with my engineering now? There are no epic patterns out there, and the pattern that do exist are... well... I don't really need +anything to my gun or bow ;)

My goggles are still good, but it won't be long before they get replaced, and then what? Drop engineering and skill something up from 0 and nothing again?

I hear its the same with Blacksmithing as their weapons and armor isn't really worth much as you start higher lvl raids.

Profession crafts need to be scaled at the same speed as new locations and loot are put in the game, or they will become useless.

Well as my main (and only high lvl) is an engineer & enchanter I have to say that I think they are the two best proffesions out there.

Enchanting is outstanding, the major problem of not being able to sell enchants other than spamming/enchant your alts is being addressed and that's all it needs imo. I'm amazed at the number of people who complain about this proffesion, for one it is one of the few that can be easily levelled without a "support" proffesion, buying items and selling the mats can make u a fortune or provide enough materials to level it efficiently as you level. It also helps to boost your character along the way which makes it completely worth while. Add to the fact that I can easily level it for free (usually get paid to) just by keeping an eye on the trade channel for people looking for enchants I think it ticks all boxes - if u know how to use the prof, it can be a. levelled easily+cheaply, b. make a LOT of gold, c. provide your character with a boost at all levels. Also all you need to do as an enchanter is find one or more of the rare bop recepies and you can make good money for it (I only really have savagery and its got me my last 15 points for free and a fair bit of gold for nothing, get +35 agi, +12 agi boots, +40 spell dmg or any of the others I regularly see people requesting all day and it's easy money/points). Disenchanting quest rewards and bop drops is a REALLY useful thing and makes you popular in groups.

Engineering for me costs a fair amount to level, but I was still suprised that it wasn't a lot more considering I don't mine - for people that do I fail to see the problem, there are several cheap items along the way and some really useful and cool items. As a hunter thats just starting raiding engineering will give me, jumper cables XL (really useful when group wipes and I can FD to res healer), dimensional ripper area 52 (a secondary way to get to outland when hs is on cd is invaluable imo), goggles! they look cool and are epic xD, bombs! always handy to have the extra aoe damage when u need it, repair bots can be really handy in raids to save wasting lots of time, the flying mount is insanely cool and the epic flying is soo much easier to get hold of than grinding rep endlessly, the gyro balanced khorium destroyer is also a really sweet gun and in my eyes easy to obtain - perhaps less useful for some other classes but engineering rules for hunters. It might not make a lot of gold as a proffesion, especially as most of the items require engineering to use but it isn't a gold making proffesion.

All in all as someone who wants to have the best character possible I think these 2 proffesions give the most, I can bring so much to an instance/raid group these days because of my proffesions - apart from maybe alchemy (when u can just buy the potions anyway) I don't see any other proffesions giving as much of a benefit to them (apart from purely making gold) and the rest of the party.

Great job blizzard with these, best proffesions out there imo - sure some new crafts would be lovely, but I really don't see anything wrong with them the way they are.

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Q u o t e:
Great job blizzard with these, best proffesions out there imo - sure some new crafts would be lovely, but I really don't see anything wrong with them the way they are.

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Spec Survival and you'll see.
But I agree, that for Hunters Engineering holds a lot of benefits, benefits other classes mostly don't get. So we have two specs that get the most, one spec that doesn't get the full benefit and 8 classes that limited bang for the buck.

Hardly a great job.

Engineering:

Levelling the profession (from 1 to 375)

Nothing really major there, just 2 details
- lvling from 335 to 355 might be considered too *easy* due to the smoke flare patterns
- getting from 365 to 375 on the other hand is a bit annoying since it relys mainly on BoP shematic drops from a few NPCs (110g repair bot, khorium scope)


End-game (level 350 to 375)

The googles provide some very high-grade head for a relatively low price, but are in the end still only one item. A bit more variety would be nice.
Especially in the trinket area - while before TBC there were a fair number of useful engineering trinkets with TBC we only have 2 trinkets there. The teleporter and the gnomish/goblin spec blue +45 stam trinket.

An upgrade of the reflectors, new jumper cables, a new net, maybe some teleportation device which emulates blink - there are quite a few possibilities.


Trading (BOE craftables and service providing to other players)

The cloud harvesting is nice (although cloud respawns are currently bugged, aka they do not happen), but IMO it could use a few more craftable items which are useful for non-engineers.
Right now the main moneysource from engeneering is rather harvesting stuff than selling crafted items. So it is right now more a gather profession like mining or herbalism in terms of moneymaking.


Profession exclusive (BOP craftables)

Longterm there are the same issues as the other tradeskills have with their stuff - the crafteable gear gets outclassed, either by PvP gear or better drops. An upgrade option for the helmets would be nice, maybe using nether vortexes like with the blacksmith weapons.


Reagents (number of and difficulty of acquiring reagents)

No problems there. Engineering needs a certain amount of non-mining items, but it is no real issue getting those on the AH.


Missing craftables (does prof X miss certain things)

No khorium/eternium/felsteel bombs/grenades/bullets.




In general I would say that engineering maily needs some more variety. There just isn't that much to do with it at 350-375 while the other pofessions get far more stuff to craft.

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Q u o t e:


impossible to farm:
There is one enchant that comes to mind that is impossible to farm. "Formula: Enchant Bracer - Spellpower" is impossible to farm once you done daily quests for Ogri'la. Putting this enchant on another mob would help.

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Actually, the Mobs just become yellow so, it's still possible to farm that enchant (I did it).

Of course that killing a mob that had pleged their allegiance with you is, ... stressful and, TBH, the hours I spent there made me feel like crap. I'm their king, they even say things when dying like "you were an horrible king" or "King think, is there really an Ogri'la"

So, even if they're still farmable, changing the mob would be much apreciated :)