very nice indeed on the whole.

One quick query though, why are there no wands that deal Holy damage? Its just something that i wanna know as there are wands that deal shadow, frost, fire, nature and arcane....but not holy. Any particular reason?

For example i just think it would make a bit more sense if wands with +healing did holy damage instead of shadow...doesn't make much sense that a wand that is focused only increasing your healing power would deal shadow damage...light and dark don't mix too well.

Another quick point, the problem with lightwell isn't the charges, its the breaking on damage element.

If however you were to either replace hp with mana restored, or remove the break on damage effect i can promise you that you would see A LOT more priests using lightwell...

I don't think you would need to alter Mass DIspel at all actually. I think at the moment the mana cost and casting time really does balance out the power of it, and allows you to spam it if really nessisary at the cost of sacrificing a lot of your mana.

I have to say I agree with Voltair here, Mass Dispel is quite alright as it is, and the mana cost does indeed make you think twice about using it.
Any PvP priest worth his or her salt will have specced for improved casting times, so that element shouldn't be a problem either. If a mage/spriest/shaman manages to Counterspell me during a 0,5 second cast, so be it.

A point on Lightwell:
Not breaking on damage would be the obvious solution, but if that seems too overpowered in the devs' eyes, make it dispellable instead, like Renew is.
But preferrably, just allow it to stay on the target, as it IS a 41 point talent, and as it is today, gives very little incentive to spec for due to its very very situational usage.

On the Disc tree:
It's been stated repeatedly that this tree will have a role of it's own in TLK, but where does that leave priests playing now?
For PvP it has its uses, though the opinions on Pain Supression are many and varied, but most priests are wanting PvE viability for it aswell. As is, you get 1 priest speccing for Divine Spirit, and the rest are free to go full Holy, including Lightwell.
However, atleast in my guild, because Lightwell is viewed as such an inferior talent, and CoH is so situational that you have no good use for it until BT/Hyjal, more priests are choosing to stay with 23/38 builds for Spirit, because it's the best all round build.
Immediate changes to the Discipline tree are strongly wished for, and I daresay that almost anything that will introduce a motivation to have different specs among different priests will be welcome.

Lastly a note about your comment about PvP:
You say our dps comes from VE and Mind Flay. I'm guessing you meant VT, and that's just a typo, since VE doesn't do any damage to your opponent, rather than giving you Health back whenever you do.
I agree with making VT harder to dispel as it is indeed a good portion of our DPS, the same goes for Mind Flay. The mana back upon dispel is a great idea for VT, and would be much the same mechanic that makes you take damage when dispelling Unstable Affliction. Shouldn't be too hard to implement.

In general, about PvP, I feel the community wants all of our buffs to be harder to dispel, because as it stands today, anything we do, or try to do, is countered quickly or efficiently by any other priest, a shaman or a hunter.
In a situation where our primary objective is to stay alive as long as possible, it is a major problem that any preventive measures we take can be dispelled immediately.
Examples being Shield, Inner Fire, Renew, Prayer of Mending.
All our instants, that we rely on using because anything with a cast time will get counterspelled/locked by a warrior/rogue/mage/shaman, ALL OF THESE are easily dispellable.

Rant over for now, and please, someone give Voltair his Deathcoil before he leaves the game :)

PVE Priest Priorities

1. Equal Healer as hybrid.
As a pure healing class, I feel we should be in a stronger position than our current status. Our main strength is that we bring utility and can be assigned to most jobs; however, we are not the best main tank or general raid healers in the game. The price we pay for being equal to hybrids in healing is being squishy, which is a very significant drawback. A dead priest is not much use, and I have reached a stage of prioritising stamina over many other stats to try and minimise this effect. If we are going to have to pay this kind of price for being a priest, I think we should be in a stronger healing position than we currently find ourselves. I like the suggestions of an aura buff of some sort, for example: health/5, mana/5, group inner fire (affecting the whole group rather than just the priest), +heal buff. I also agree with the suggestion that we should have more stamina on our gear as standard.

Another option is to make us a hybrid and scrap the whole pure healer thing. Give us a pet and make us the opposite of a warlock. We could train and control it so it can help us heal, dispel, shackle and stuff.

2. Mana regain
Bottom line is that we suck at mana regain compared to other healing classes. Seriously, we are the worst class at this. Our pets are limited at regaining mana, and are vulnerable to death in boss fights. I would prefer a mechanic build into my spells or talents. The spirit mechanic needs improving (/cheer for the meditation buff, but we need more) so that our “main stat” becomes (more) useful.

3. Talent trees, Spirit buff and Combo’s
I would like all the healing talents, including the improved divine spirit buff (divine spirit as standard) and mana regain talents in one place. I’d like to see more combinations within the talent trees, with rewards if you choose certain talents together. For example, I really like how some of the equipment set abilities work, and it would be really cool to have these abilities built into the talent trees as incentives to choose certain talents together. I’m not sure what the identity of the new discipline tree will be, but it could be cool to then use your spare talents to dip into this one if you wanted to.

PvP Shadow spec need much more love.

and about More +shadow damage on items. I pick +spell dmg because of Power Word: Shield. ( Shield now gains additional benefit from spell damage and healing bonuses ) ... yes survivability :\

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Q u o t e:
A point on Lightwell: (...)
But preferrably, just allow it to stay on the target, as it IS a 41 point talent, and as it is today, gives very little incentive to spec for due to its very very situational usage.

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No it's not, it's 31. Either way, if it's supposed to stay in its current form, it needs either more charges, or cooldown reduction, not to mention debuff that prevents you from wasting all charges instantly. As it is now, it gives 5 bandages during boss fight, which is hardly worth it.

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Q u o t e:
One quick query though, why are there no wands that deal Holy damage? Its just something that i wanna know as there are wands that deal shadow, frost, fire, nature and arcane....but not holy. Any particular reason?

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Actually there are wands that deal holy damage ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22254 ) , problem is they are just too few. EDIT: It seems this wand is the only one with holy damage. Lol to that ^^

That aside, I don't agree with changing Mass Dispel. Since Blizzard has put a chance for it to be resisted, adding a cooldown to it would be a bigger nerf than you imagine. Imagine a paladin bubbling up, you using MD, and the paladin resisting. Not pretty in arenas. I think a reduced mana cost isn't worth that kind of risk.

As for Lightwell, I rest my case. I've been urging my fellow priests to open their eyes and see that this spell is flawed to the core and that no buff will ever make it good but people won't listen. If you want it buffed, fine, buff it then, it will still be very situational at best and useless at worst.

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Q u o t e:

If however you were to either replace hp with mana restored, or remove the break on damage effect i can promise you that you would see A LOT more priests using lightwell...

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That is a good suggestion, an in combat mana bandage. Or it could be like the new mage food where you get health AND mana.

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Q u o t e:
Dispel the VT/VE/Mindflay/.. (priority 4)
The main source of DPS would be VE and Mindflay. Of course these spells can be counterattacked by dispelling them. Having a good opponent who notices this makes a Priests a lot difficult. Some Priests would like to see a talent that reduces the chance of dispelling the VT/VE/Mindflay. Of course the same can be said about Priest buffs like fortitude.

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VE is a spell that will return 25% (talented) of the shadow dmg that you cause as hp.

Aren't you meaning SW:P to be the "DPS DoT"? (Shadow Word: Pain?)

EDIT:

Or VT? Vampiric Touch?

Well, I see Lightwell resolved in more than one way:
1. The breaking on damage removed - keep the healing bonus (reduce if OP), add more charges if reduced;
2. Make it restore % of health/mana, something like rejuvenation effect in Warcraft III, after all, it's our 41pter;
3. I'd like to see it work as totem - I place it properly and all friendly targets withing 30-40 yards receive increased healing, lets say % of the priest's healing. If it's a small %, let it stack from more than one priest...
Just my few ideas...

Edit:

In my opinion, Mass dispell is quite ok at the moment, so I don't see a need to change it...

Survavibility for Holy priests was good with Blessed resilience and improved for Disc priests with Focused will, however the Shadow priests were still left with no tools to survive...
Although Blizzard considers Shadow priests a "tough cookie", I presume a reviewed Fade would help a lot. Even becoming untargetable (yey, new word) for 2-3 seconds would be helpful... On improved Fade for example.

Shadow Priest PVP Issues
I don’t use a discipline or holy priest and as I only PvP at the moment, I will post on the subject I feel am most familiar with. This is my list of top 3 current concerns.
1- Survivability
2- Crowd Control
3- Mana Conservation

Survivability
For a Shadow Priest, survivability is my current biggest concern. When we are targeted by 2 or more players we go down very, very fast. Our lack of effective CC plays a big part in this but the defensive abilities at our disposal are still very lacking and I feel they need improvement. Below are some suggestions that I would like to see.

Improved Power Word: Shield
Grants an additional 20/40/60% chance to resist physical interrupts (hamstring, stun, blind, concussive shot etc) while active. This is in addition to the current 10/20/30% shield absorption increase.

Inner Fire
Remove charges from this spell and change to a 5 minute buff OR change it so that dispel/ purge remove only 1/2 charges.

Shadow Resilience
Suggestion 1
Rework this ability work against melee damage also. Heals should be affected also.
Suggestion 2
Replace with Shadow Shield (1/1)
Talented ability that allows Power Word: Shield a chance to proc Blackout on a successful melee hit against the Priest.

Fade
Instant cast spell that reduces current aggro by x%. These effects last for 8 seconds; Current spell cast stops, and enemy loses target of us. The Priest’s name is also removed from above him. The improved aspect of this ability should be for PvE and reduce threat by an additional x amount.

Crowd Control
I believe the Priest currently lacks any form of ‘reliable’ crowd control. We do have some good abilities but each is flawed in some crucial way in my opinion. Below I have listed suggested some examples of changes I would like to see made to our current Crowd control abilities that would help in this area.

Shackle Humanoid
1.5 seconds cast- Immobilizes the target for 10 seconds making them invulnerable for the duration. Any dots on the target will remain but not harm the target, or break the spell until the Shackle subsides.

Mind Control
Give us a pet bar to control the mind controlled target and allow us to continue without the channelled spell effect. Target is controlled for 8 seconds EVERY TIME in PvP. All damage done by the Priest’s spells is halved for the duration through the mental effort required.

Mind Soothe
Give this spell a 1.5 second cast, and make it charm the target for 15 seconds without aggravating it once the effect wears off. Give it a duration of 5 seconds in PvP.

Blackout
Suggestion 1
Give this talent a 3% chance to stun per point; 3/6/9/12/15%.
Suggestion 2 (Preferred)
Change it to an active instant cast 3 second stun spell with a talentable 60/55/50/45/40 second cooldown.

Silence
Remove it from the Global Cooldown and reduce the cooldown to 35 seconds.

Mind Flay
In a very broad sense, Mind Flay is our last crowd control spell. It can be very useful in helping a team mate get some distance on an attacker, but currently it is terribly affected by pushback. It needs a talented improved version that offers 35/70% resistance to pushback effects.

Mana Conservation
Against classes that can remove our dots through dispels or other means, we often have problems with running out of mana. Our dots are expensive to keep recasting and so I believe we need a way of improving our ability to recast them. Extra dispel resistance is a possibility but I can see that harming us more than helping. Afterall it is one of OUR best abilities at the moment.

Improved Vampiric Embrace
Have this give a 50/100% chance to automatically apply Vampiric Embrace on cast of Shadow Spells as well as current effect. This spell is annoying to have to keep recasting and so this is a natural improvement that would save time when reapplying our dots after removal.

Vampiric Touch
When this spell is dispelled, the caster receives an amount of mana equal to ¼ of the remaining damage it would have caused had it been left to run its full course.


To summarise, I would like to see lots of minor tweaks rather than one overpowered ability buff. For me the best improvements made to the Shadow Priest, would be those that give me more options in a fight. I want more abilities to counter certain situations and abilities that need to be used effectively to work well.

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Q u o t e:
Remember, I'm still looking for talent tree feedback.

Also don't forget yout top 3 concerns!

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Very well, as far as my opinion goes, here is my contribution:

1. Top 3 concerns in PvP:
1.1 Lack of resistance to dispel mechanics on both specs (priest buffs/debuffs are too easily dispelled)
1.2 Lack of survivability on Shadow spec
1.3 Lack of viable escape measures on both specs (Psychic Scream is too weak)

2. Top 3 concerns in PvE:
2.1 Talents in the Holy and Discipline tree wrongly placed in terms of tier and/or tree itself (will get to this later)
2.2 Not enough aggro reducing measures on both specs but especially on Shadow
2.3 Need a better way to restore mana in combat (one that doesn't depend on attacking the mob/boss)


I'll make a list of all the talents I think are wrong and try to explain briefly why on the next post.

3. Talent Issues:

3.1 Discipline Tree:
Wand Specialization - Replace with something else and put this further ahead with 2/2 like Mages. A good idea would be to replace with something good for PvE, since Unbreakable Will isn't really directed to it.
Silent Resolve - Here could lie the answer to your dispel problem in PvP. Just increasing the percentage would help a lot.
Martyrdom - Another way to increase your survivability, especially against rogues/mages would be increasing the resistance to interrupts this talent provides.
Improved Inner Fire - This one is tricky: if Blizzard removes the charges from the spell itself this talent is fine. If not, maybe changing this to more charges instead of more armor. Who knows, why not make this talent remove the charges? That way one would have to spec Disc for it, makes sense.
Divine Spirit / Imp. Divine Spirit - This talent does not belong here. Holy Tree with it, I say!
Reflective Shield - Worse place to spend 5 talents ever. The damage returned is low, lower even if you're being attacked by multiple targets AND it breaks CC. Fixing both these issues would make it viable for a lot of things, at the moment it only works on duels and still it's not that hot.

That's it for the Disc Tree, will talk about the rest on the next post.

3.2 Holy Tree

Spell Warding - Doesn't quite feel like holy. It has Discipline written all over it.
Holy Nova - Damage is ridiculously weak. Healing is ridiculously weak. It does both, hooray, but both are weak -_- The concept is not working it seems, and since buffing both parts of it would make it OP, either lower the mana cost or buff only 1 part.
Spirit of Redemption - This is fine, just add 1 little thing: increase the range of our healing spells while in this form since we cannot move.
Surge of Light - Too far down the holy tree. Putting it earlier would be a good step towards making Disc/Holy dpsers viable.
Holy Concentration - Weakest clearcast had to belong to us priests. The rate is low so it doesn't really help with burst healing (which is the situation where we spam FH and GH the most). Either make it proc with all heals or increase the chance.
Lightwell - I think you already have enough feedback on this one Schwick <3 Although I think the solution lies on replacing this spell, not buffing it. Making it restore mana would work both in making it viable AND giving us a viable way to restore mana in raids.
Circle of Healing - Well I wouldn't say this talent is bad, the problem is it's just not good enough for the slot it is in. Many opinions were given on how to improve it. Increasing the range of the AoE heal and making it heal the whole raid (and adding a cooldown/increased mana cost to balance), would certainly make it viable.

Will post Shadow talents on the next post.

3.3 Shadow Tree

Shadow Affinity - A good way to solve the overaggroing problems of shadow priests on raids these days. Increasing the percentage would be a great idea.
Mind Flay - The range is ridiculous, everyone that takes this talent also takes Shadow Reach, so why not give this talent an increased range by itself?
Improved Fade - Here lies a way to give the shadow priests survivability and means of escaping in PvP. Change this talent to remove stun/immobilize/slow so it has an use in PvP for shadow priests.
Shadow Resilience - Another good way to give survivability to shadow priests would be pumping up this talent, maybe to resemble Blessed Resilience, who knows...
Vampiric Touch - This is really good except for the fact that it's easily dispellable. Make it harder to dispel or make it give mana when dispelled and it would be just perfect.

So there you have it. I urge every priest reading this thread to read and post, I know it's troublesome, but we must voice out our concerns if we want them to be sloved, not just whine and expect someone else to voice them for us.
Apart from that please comment on my opinions and argument if you disagree, however, and as always, keep this thread constructive : )