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Q u o t e:


read the explanation on the shots above

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Most of the speed increasing effects, reduce the global cooldown aswell, like rapid fire, heroism/bloodlust etc etc

This post made me sader but wiser i guess - bm specced ive been using the merciless crossbow believing it was the best i could get my hands on - entered the wolfslayer, which i passed on a number of times, in cheekys spreadsheet - and my dps raised by 28!
If it rly will increase my dps with that much - that will be a nice and easy upgrade.

thx for post

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Q u o t e:
This post made me sader but wiser i guess - bm specced ive been using the merciless crossbow believing it was the best i could get my hands on - entered the wolfslayer, which i passed on a number of times, in cheekys spreadsheet - and my dps raised by 28!
If it rly will increase my dps with that much - that will be a nice and easy upgrade.

thx for post

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dont listen to this crap...

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Q u o t e:
this is all nice, but lets step back into reality

as BM with serpent swiftness + IAotH my 2.8 weapon speed becomes 2.03 when just equipped
when IAotH proc its even lower, and with rapidfire it drops down to around 1.7-1.6
the GCD is 1.5

so, if you use 2.0 speed bow and apply all of that, you will drop below 1.5, effectily ruining your DPS completely

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Sigh. Here's a few qutoes of my own posts above:

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Q u o t e:
****I have excluded the Rfile of the Stoic Guardian - at 1.9 speed it is way too fast to be of any use to a hunter, and actually comes dead last on both lists.

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Q u o t e:
Haste increases are great for BM hunters. The faster you can shoot the better, as long as you don't get quicker than the GCD (1.5 seconds).

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Q u o t e:
please stop advertising slow bows for BM, its rubbish
the slower the better, always been, always will be

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I have to assume you mean "please stop advertising fast bows for BM. And if so, then you are actually wrong.

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Q u o t e:
Juggernaut, I do respect your will to help the Hunters out there with all of this reading, but please unless you are not very experienced in BM, dont discuss specs you didnt play much or dont know all aspects of

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Sigh again. I'm not wanting to start an argument here, but you don't quite seem to have grasped the maths behind the steady shot mechanics, and I have to reply again that if you think a slow weapon will give you better dps as a BM hunter, you are wrong.

ok I hope any serious BT/Hyjal BM hunters come around and get this cleared, who is right or wrong

Sorry if i've missed something, but how exactly is Arcanite-Steam Pistol better than Legionkiller?

Same speed, Legionkiller having higher bow dps, and damage range, and actually 1 AP more than the gun...

Woke up at 6am if i've missed something stupid, but right now it look's like this spreadsheet is saying 1+1=3 :)

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Q u o t e:
This post made me sader but wiser i guess - bm specced ive been using the merciless crossbow believing it was the best i could get my hands on - entered the wolfslayer, which i passed on a number of times, in cheekys spreadsheet - and my dps raised by 28!
If it rly will increase my dps with that much - that will be a nice and easy upgrade.

thx for post
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dont listen to this crap...

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u r saying the spreadsheet is wrong?

Xaena , you don't need to be raiding BT to know how the class mechanics work.

But do you seriously still believe that steady shot will do more damage with a slow weapon than with a fast one? Even after the maths example I posted earlier proved it doesn't?

yes I do
tested both, the result of having slow weapon is much more significant

again, theorycrafting is good, but when it comes to the actual gameplay it fails most of the time
you showing so much love to the spreadsheet you dont look at any other logic, and this is what is bad

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Q u o t e:
Sorry if i've missed something, but how exactly is Arcanite-Steam Pistol better than Legionkiller?

Same speed, Legionkiller having higher bow dps, and damage range, and actually 1 AP more than the gun...

Woke up at 6am if i've missed something stupid :)

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They're both pretty close tbh. But even tho the leigonkiller has 3dps more, the Steam-Pistol has better stats (for increasing damage) - tho this depends on your hiot rating somewhat.

A 3dps increase in weapon damage on a same-speed weapon is really only a very minor dps upgrade comapred to the extra 19 hit rating that the Steam-Pistol gives.

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Q u o t e:


They're both pretty close tbh. But even tho the leigonkiller has 3dps more, the Steam-Pistol has better stats (for increasing damage) - tho this depends on your hiot rating somewhat.

A 3dps increase in weapon damage on a same-speed weapon is really only a very minor dps upgrade comapred to the extra 19 hit rating that the Steam-Pistol gives.

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Is this spreadsheet assuming 0 hit rating then, or some dude not hit-capped?

Hit capped, it's impossible a weapon with higher DPS, and damage range, and more AP, would do less damage than one with less @ same weapon speed.

Hastes do not affect the global cooldown. No, not Bloodlust either.

In a theoretical and lag free setting, as long as your final* Auto Shot speed is 1.5 seconds or above, and your final Steady Shot cast time is 1.0 seconds or below, it's possible to maintain a 1:1 rotation (e.g. Steady / Auto) without delaying your Auto Shots.
The exact amount of buffer you need to not delay anything in a real in-game environment depends on your latency, reaction time and frame rate, making you want something a bit slower than 1.5 final Auto Shot speed.

*after all hastes.

Weapon speed is still glaringly important in terms of PvE DPS, and often overshadows the intended power of a weapon (as measured in DPS firstly and item level/stat allocation secondly). In a pure stand-still and shoot scenario, which is what the spreadsheet used models, faster weapons very frequently have a powerful edge on similar DPS (but slower speed) weapons. In more movement heavy fight, some of this advantage is mitigated.


I was planning on writing a post about this last weekend, detailing more in detail why (and thus defining the problems), but I was ill.
Also, Guitar Hero 3 is the devil.


EDIT: Given 2 weapons of the same DPS but differing weapon speeds, both weapons will over time have the same average damage (given other variables staying the same). Weapon DPS is normalized for Steady Shot.

Using the spreadsheet this is the numbers I get: (Check my gear in armory)

Arcanite steam-pistol: 1178,78 dps
Barrel-blade longrifle: 1177,09
Wolfslayer sniper rifle: 1172,70
Legionkiller: 1168,69
Don Santos' famous hunting rifle: 1164,11

This is using a 1:1 Steady shot rotation. If i change it to 1:1 Priority Arcanite steam-pistol gets an even bigger lead, but it only gets 2 more dps so that would only be a mana waste.

So, how come?

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Q u o t e:
Using the spreadsheet this is the numbers I get: (Check my gear in armory)

Arcanite steam-pistol: 1178,78 dps
Barrel-blade longrifle: 1177,09
Wolfslayer sniper rifle: 1172,70
Legionkiller: 1168,69
Don Santos' famous hunting rifle: 1164,11

This is using a 1:1 Steady shot rotation. If i change it to 1:1 Priority Arcanite steam-pistol gets an even bigger lead, but it only gets 2 more dps so that would only be a mana waste.

So, how come?

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Dragonspine Trophy :)

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Q u o t e:


Dragonspine Trophy :)

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True, if I remove it I get the same results as the OP.. so, what's best to do? Ignore the spreadsheet and get one of the guns that should be better?

This topic is just about Hunter and his own dps. When the hunter becomes BM specced he should seriously consider his pets dps. Dont forget that when you are BM specced you get the "IAotH" and the "Go for the Throat" talents. Faster weapons procs more "IAotH" and this gives more focus to your pet through "Go for the throat" talent increasing your pets dps greatly.
I wouldnt recomment slow weapons for a BM hunter except if u dont plan to invest points on "Go for the Throat" talent at all. But then again you shouldnt be BM specced either

Really nice post and good information in it.
sticky?

Well that's nice :)

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Q u o t e:
This thread has been added to the “Informative and useful hunter threads” compilations sticky:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=304172592

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I found a blue! One of the most elusive preys a hunter can stalk...

Anywho, nice guide :)