Disclaimer: Yet another sticky saved from the old forum. Not made by me, and all I got to go by are the initials SD. Good guide though, worth a read if you plan to make a priest alt/main. Read it then adapt to your own style.


The focus of this guide.
Getting a priest to level 60 as fast as possible. This guide covers talent builds and progression, equipment choices, fight strategies and grinding areas.


The Talent build.
This build focuses on Grinding only. Specifically, minimizing downtime while retaining a high kill rate.

I have successfully done 5-man Scarlet Strat at lvl 57 with this spec, plus a few other instances, so you can still get away with it. But be aware of that.

Shadow:
level 10-14: 5 points in Spirit Tap. With your focus on in-fight regen, concentrated casting and no downtime, this talent is pure gold.
level 15-16: 2 points in Improved Shadow Word: Pain. One of your primary damage sources.
level 17-19: 3 points in Blackout (3/5). Also a must.
10 spent so far.

level 20: 1 point in Mind Flay (1/1). You will love this spell. It will do something like 400 damage over 3 seconds for 135 mana *AND* slow the enemy to 50% later on, making it ridiculously effective at later levels.
level 21-22: 2 points in Blackout (5/5)
level 23-24: 2 points in Shadow Focus (2/5)
15 spent so far

level 25-27: 3 points in Shadow Reach. Once again, be sure to use range to maximum effect.
level 28-29: 2 points in Shadow Focus (4/5)
20 spent so far

level 30-34: 5 points in Shadow Weaving (5/5)
25 spent so far

level 35: 1 point in Shadow Focus (5/5)
Level 36-39: 4 points in Darkness (4/5)
Level 40: 1 point in Shadow Form (1/1)
31 points in the Shadow Tree.

Discipline:
level 41-45: 5 points in Unbreakable Will. Not overly useful, but helps a bit against Ogre Brutes, of which you will fight tons.
level 46: 1 point in Improved Power Word: Shield. Most of the time, your enemy will be dead long before your shield is out. Still having Weakened Soul on you when you want to engage the next enemy is annoying and either slows you down unnecessarily or brings your rhythm out of order. A single point here is sufficient, 25 seconds is enough in most cases. If you find yourself still waiting on Weakened Soul to end, spend a 2nd point.
level 47-51: 5 points in Wand Specialisation. With wands doing 20-40% of your damage, this talent is very attractive. Be sure to spec out of it at 60 though, regardless of whether you stay shadow or go for healing powa.
level 52-56: 5 points in Mental Agility. Less mana spending always helps.
After this you will find yourself at level 56, you can spend some points in Holy, a couple more in Shadow, Threat reducing or whatever you want.

I strongly suggest respeccing to your endgame build at lvl 58 and running 5-man instances for the last 2 levels. Being level 60 with level 40 grinding gear isn't very useful. And everyone loves priests in their party, so that's easy enough. Doing 5-man instances with quests yields decent XP and is a welcome departure from all the grinding at that point.


Equipment choices:
The short version: spi > sta > int.

Yes, this means choosing a +10 spi item over a +20 int one. If you follow this guide, you will never drink while grinding, so max mana is almost completely irrelevant. You might choose a +20 int over a +3 spi item in one or two slots so your max mana won't be ridiculously low (for emergencies and natural variance), but usually you will get a decent level of int anyway, as most cloth items you are interested in have some of it.

Stamina is important because you want to avoid casting healing spells in combat. It stops your regen, you lose lots of time because of the wand cooldown, and your kill rate goes down.

items with +spell/shadow damage are something you should look out for as well. While its tricky giving hard advise on spirit vs spell dmg, the latter gives you more dps while not touching your regen/expense balance, so you should choose it over int and sta.

I suggest you keep some +int and +healing items you find for instance runs you might want to do.

Items to look out for:

Graveyard Scepter: Blue quest reward 29 shadow dps wand from BFD, get this as soon as you are able to get the quest (find a friend to rush you through). While shadow damage wands won't benefit from the Darkness talent and Shadow Form, you will get the +15% damage from shadow vulnerability (later on, anyway).

As your wand will do about 20%-40% of your total damage, always keep an eye out for good ones, this is your most important equipment slot!

Illusionary Rod:
From SM, Arcanist Doan, get it asap (item is usable from level 34)

Dreamweave Vest & Gloves: lvl 40. Dreamweave Circlet, level 45.
14 spi and +18 spell damage/healing. The Dreamweave set has the perfect stats for you, +spirit and +spell damage. it is tailor-made from trainer recipes, so getting it from guildies, AH or making it yourself should be no problem. When you ding 40, you should have the stuff in your inventory already.

Umbral Wand of the Whale: lvl 40. Shadow Damage, spirit and stamina. Many of these can be found at the AH, just start checking for it at lvl 35 or so.

Dalewind Trousers: lvl 47 iirc. 25 spirit? Yes please! Check the AH from lvl 40 on for this item, it is rare but has the wrong stats for most people, so you can make a great deal on these if you keep a lookout. I spent 35 gold, which is way too much, but I do not regret that decision in any way.


Fight tactics:
this section covers your fighting style while grinding. There are 2 different methods I used pretty much exclusively:

Method 1:
Mind Blast, Shadow Word:Pain, Mind Flay, 2nd Mind Flay if stunned and mana permits, Wand till death.

Method 2:
Shield, Mind Blast, Shadow Word: Pain, Mind Flay, Mind Flay, third Mind Flay if one of the spells stunned, wand till death.

The key concept behind this approach is having 5-6 seconds each fight to regenerate your mana, and already being past the "5 second rule" when Spirit Tap kicks in. Before level 40, take care not to heal yourself, even with a Renew, between each fight. Apart from the cost of the spell itself, you also lose 5 seconds of mana regen, which is in the range of 100-200 extra mana. Wait 2 or 3 fights and cast a single Big heal, or use bandages (I recommend the latter). Past level 40, when you have Shadow Form, use bandages only.

When to use each method.
Method 1 uses a lot less mana, but you lose more health on average. Use this against low damage opponents, when you have more health than mana, or when you are a 2+ levels above the enemy.

Method 2 is a lot faster. You spend more mana, but typically lose next to no health, all casts are still in one bunch, meaning you lose very little in terms of extra regen. Use this method against higher lvls, when you have low health but leftover mana and against most casters (they have less health, but can interrupt MF with their spells, plus their dps is a lot higher). Especially after level 40, you will use this method most of the time, as you will fight enemies 1 level above you due to your insane dps. Your regen will also be beyond what Blizzard expects any character of your level to have, so you can get away with it.

Always use your absolutely max range! With the right timing, you can get MB, SWP and 2x MF in before the enemy gets his first hit.

This way, you will regenerate around 800-1200 mana between each fight at later levels, which is about the same you spend each fight. I used to drink only when I got unexpected adds while already low on mana, and sometimes after rebuffing Power Word: Fortitude. Once every 15-20 minutes I guess.

Note: as of 1.7.0, The 5 second rule (No mana regeneration for 5 seconds after casting a spell, in case you did not know) starts only at the END of channeled spells. This is actually a slight problem, as in 1.6.1 your regen would start 2 seconds after the last Mind Flay, now its 5 seconds after. That's about 100 mana/fight more later on.

One last tip: Use lower levels of Shield and pre-40, Heal. The sole purpose of Shield is to not allow enemies to interrupt your Mind Flay. Once you start using your wand, Shield should be used up. Regenerating a little mana while bandaging is way more effective than using lots of mana on Shield, which is a terribly ineffective spell. Also use lower level bandages, you don't have as much health as a warrior anyway ;)

Grinding Spots:
In choosing Grinding Spots, I had several criteria that had to be fulfilled:
- I was a tailor, so cloth drops were important for me. However, there is one big problem with Humanoids: They are runners. You do not want to use another spell when the enemy is running away, since it stops your regen. With autoshoot implemented the way it is, stopping runners is a pain anyway.

Luckily, there are 2 types of enemies that give you the best of both worlds: Ogres and Undead. Undead have the extra advantage that you can shackle any adds you get. And Ogres are my favorite mobs in the game anyway, for reasons too numerous and obvious to mention :)

Here is the list, then. For the lower levels, it is from an Alliance perspective, but at level 30, that doesn't really matter anymore.

level 18-28: Duskwood, Tranquil Gardens & Raven Hill Graveyard, Duskwood.
13000-16000 XP/hour

level 29-32: Duskwood, Manor Mistmantle
Fetid Corpses. Cleanse the disease you get from time to time. Also a random chestspawn and a boss (Stalvan).
16000-17800 XP/hour

level 33-34: Arathi Highlands, Boulderfist Outpost.
Boulderfist Ogres. Stay outside the cave, going around in circles. Don't engage the trolls. You should find a rhythm soon enough, there are enough Ogres here (though at first it seems you kill too fast for the respawns)
18200-20500 XP/hour

level 35-36: Alterac Mountains, Gallow's Corner.
Crushridge Ogres & Brutes. Do both sides of the ruined tower, plenty of Ogres here.
21500 XP/hour

level 37-38: Badlands, Dustbowl
Lesser Rock Elementals (37-39). These are no humanoids, but they are Blizzard's gift to grinders. Nice XP, no hitpoints, no risk and very good gold/hour. There are also quests for these, pick them up for some free XP. A repair vendor can be found in the center of the Badlands.
21500-22500 XP/hour

level 39-41: Badlands, Mirage Flats
Rock Elementals (38-40) and Greater Rock Elementals. This spot of Elementals is farmed a lot less than the other one. It can be found in the mountains in the south of the Badlands.
21500 XP/hour at level 39.
28500-29500 XP/hour at level 40-41. Level 40 is the most significant level for you. You get a new wand, new chestpiece, new gloves and shadow form, your most important ability. The rate at which you kill enemies from now on will be almost frightening, hence the almost 50% increase in XP/hour. The downside? Your XP/hour will stay pretty much the same from here till level 60, making each level increasingly tedious.

level 42: Feralas, Gordunni Outpost.
Gordunni Ogres, Brutes and Ogre Mages (40-43). Grind in the latter part of the compound, making slight advances into the cave once you run out of Ogres outside.
29500-30000 XP/hour

level 43-45: Feralas, Ruins of Isildien
Gordunni Brutes, Maulers and Warlocks (42-44)
30000-30500 XP/hour

level 46-48: Tanaris (central), Dunemaul Compound
Dunemaul Brutes, Enforces, Ogres and Ogre Mages (45-48). The perfect spot is a bit hard to find. There is an area a bit north of the cave, where you can run sort of a Ogre parcour, going in a long circle (around 10- 15 minutes for one circle I think) where you can always get perfectly safe single pulls. Takes a while to figure out the route.
28500-30.000 XP/hour

level 49-50: Tanaris, Thistleshrub Valley
Thistleshrub Rootshapers, Gnarled Thistleshrubs & Thistleshrub Dew Collectors (47-50)
32500-34000 XP/hour. You badly need the slight increase in XP here, so be glad about it. These are also great for grinding, especially for Alchemists. No HP, no damage and decent greenie drop rate.

level 51-53: Un'Goro crater
Tar Lords & Lurkers (lvl 50-54) & Un'GoroQuests.
The Tar Lords drop Living Essences, making them worth it for cash and the Hide of the Wild, which you will want if you go PvE.
At this level you should also start doing some quests. Especially the Un'Goro ones have ridiculous XP awards for very little effort. Avoid the Pterrordax quest and some of the other more tedious ones.
An alternative are the Firegut Ogres in the Burning Steppes (50-52 iirc), plus the quests for them.
35000-37000 XP/hour

level 54-55: Western Plaguelands & Eastern Plaguelands
Fordring questline starting quests, Cauldron quests, grinding on the first Cauldron field. Also Felwood quests.
34000-35000 XP/hour.

level 55-56: Winterspring
Yetis. Nuff said. Also several worthwile quests here.
around 34000 XP/hour

level 57: Eastern Plaguelands
Fordring questline continuation, endgame instance prereqs, Dire Maul East+Quests, BRD+ quests for the Onyxia key.
20000-30000 XP/hour, but time goes by a lot quicker and you get badly needed equipment upgrades.

level 58-60: Endgame instances in 5-man parties, with the respective quests. I suggest respeccing at level 58.

You can get to 60 in about 7 days /played like this. I idled a lot in the levels before 20, got my tailoring and enchanting up to speed and did mostly instances from 58-60, so it took me 10 days /played in the end.

A few words on grinding: Many of you will find this way of getting a character to 60 a perversion of the game principles. Made for idiots who simply want to get to 60 without enjoying any of the marvels this game has to offer. To a certain extent you are right. I strongly urge you to get your first character to 60 in your own time, enjoying the humongous amount of effort Blizzard have spent on all the little details.

But grinding my priest up was a rather different experience for me. I would turn off the game music, set my MP3 player to random in the background, and listen to all the albums (I have way too many) and all the songs I never took the time to listen to properly, for whatever reason. I also just moved to the US and had 2 weeks till University started, so absolutely noone was around. (Dorms and Graduate Housing weren't even officially open yet)

So whenever I had some time to relax, I would get into grinding mode and enjoy my music without the urge to just jumping to my fav tracks ;)

This way, grinding was a lot of fun for me, though it admittedly doesn't have much to do with the way this game is meant to be played.

Enjoy! Feedback of any kind is very appreciated (though it doesn't matter for my char anymore ;))

-SD

I must be going wrong somewhere. But you need 1 point in Vampric Embrace to get shadowform. Perhaps i should have seen that before i copied that spec.

What about an TBC update?

Or is there a newer and better guide allready?

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Q u o t e:
level 46: 1 point in Improved Power Word: Shield. Most of the time, your enemy will be dead long before your shield is out. Still having Weakened Soul on you when you want to engage the next enemy is annoying and either slows you down unnecessarily or brings your rhythm out of order. A single point here is sufficient, 25 seconds is enough in most cases. If you find yourself still waiting on Weakened Soul to end, spend a 2nd point.

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I stopped reading here.

1) The Weakened soul is 15 seconds, no matter if you have imp shield or not!
2) why the hell would a shadowpriest EVER use shield ? Just use Vampiric Embrace on the target, and that should easily keep you at full health at all times. Also shield is not very mana efficient.
3) After skimming the rest of your thread, I saw that you said shadowpriest should go for Spirit gear..... WRONG! Shadowpriests should go for damage gear primarily.

Shadow Priest equipement guide:
+spell damage/shadow damage > all

[/quote] 5 points in Unbreakable Will [/quote]

what about 25% wand damage? O_o weird specc

it was nice that you took the time to explain how you leveled and stuff.. but for me.. the spec is for far from the best shadow spec.. your combo uses too much mana (shielding is the worst thing for grinding) .. and you have a really strange fetish for ogres ^^

just read what the OP said; he's reposting a very, very old guide.
The grinding spots might still work, but the build used isn't possible anymore.

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Q u o t e:
it was nice that you took the time to explain how you leveled and stuff.. but for me.. the spec is for far from the best shadow spec.. your combo uses too much mana (shielding is the worst thing for grinding) .. and you have a really strange fetish for ogres ^^

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Could either you are someone else, post a link to a great build that is suitable for a priest rookie?

Another guide that is more up to date is to prefer :)

Get 5 points in both spirittap and wand specialization, as you'll be doing alot more damage with a wand at lower levels than with your spells.

So go get yourself a wand as soon as possible and kill the mobs that way. WAY less downtime and faster leveling. (I suggest lesser magic wand and greater magic wand, both made by enchanters really cheap.)

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Q u o t e:
Could either you are someone else, post a link to a great build that is suitable for a priest rookie?

Another guide that is more up to date is to prefer :)

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Been a while since I thought about early grinding but after a quick look at lvl 39 aim to have something like this :-

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?050000000000000000000000000000000000000000520232010251101000000

While grinding try not to use PW:S as it's not mana efficient (sp) unless your mind flays get interupted too much.

Always wand a mob to death from 30-40% to gain full effect from spirit tap.

once you hit 40 respec to :-

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?000000000000000000000000000000000000000000520232010251123011000

to take full advantage of shadow form.

Then by the time you got 60 and start raiding / instance running you need to think about threat reduction so possibly :-

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?233000000000000000000000000000000000000000503222010251123051251


and by the time you ( and me as I'm not there yet ) hit 70 then :-

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?234200013000000000000000000000000000000000503222010251123051551


The last build is not set in stone for me but looks like a fairly safe option. The threat reduction is a must if i want to keep the tank in a good mood or I accidentaly go barmy on the DPS.

Improved PW:F is nice so you can still buff the group and if a holy Priest is about they will like it more that they just have to buff spirit rather than both.

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Q u o t e:

I stopped reading here.

1) The Weakened soul is 15 seconds, no matter if you have imp shield or not!
2) why the hell would a shadowpriest EVER use shield ? Just use Vampiric Embrace on the target, and that should easily keep you at full health at all times. Also shield is not very mana efficient.
3) After skimming the rest of your thread, I saw that you said shadowpriest should go for Spirit gear..... WRONG! Shadowpriests should go for damage gear primarily.

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1. Hehe that guide is from before 1.10. When PW:S always had 30 sec weakened soul unless you specced it.
2. To be able to mindflay while target is in melee perhaps?
3. For effective and fast grinding spirit is superior to any stat. Just that simple.

Oh and did it feel good to go all "WRONG!" in reply to a post that is copied from the OLD forums and obviously is at least a year old?

Thank you Stilgarr. Would take in notise the following builds :D

But is there a more thorough "guide" on grinding spots, up-to-date items, and so on..? You have all been to much help this far..

I'm going to post a quick bit about my experience so far, and none of the following is made up (what would the point be?!?) ;

I started a BElf Priest because I'm moving home and don't have time to level and raid this character. It's giving me something to do when I get online now and again, and it's going quite well.
So far I have 3 days and 13 hours on /played, and I just hit lvl 40 and 4 bars (turned lots of quests in at once).

Rightly or wrongly, I've specced purely into Shadow as I wanted Shadow Form asap. I buggered it up on the way to 20, so respecced around at around lvl 22ish.

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?000000000000000000000000000000000000000000500252010251123011000

That's my current build as of today. I found Blackout wasn't as useful as reducing their chance to resist my spells, shadow reach allows me to get lots of damage in before they reach me, and shadow weaving means every time I attack my damage gets even sicker :D
I use Psychic Scream mainly if fighting 2 or 3 mobs, but also while I was on foot to travel through areas fast. Duskwallow Marsh for example, you can run in a straight line through it just alternating Scream and Shield, and arrive where you want to grind/quest much faster.

Okay stats, as of last night I had 163 Intellect, and 193 Spirit. That means I have enough mana to take on 3 mobs at once if I screw up a pull, but also I have enough regen that I can grind mobs of my level without stopping.
If I'm grinding mobs a level or two above me, I can do about 12 before my mana has slowly ticked down to nothing, and I need to grab a quick drink.

I use PW:S, Mind Blast, SW:P, VE, Mind Flay, Mind Flay, Mind Flay, Wand for mobs 2 to 3 levels above me.

I use Mind Blast, VE, SW:P, Mind Flay, Mind Flay and Wand for mobs my level, lower or 1 level above.

With those combos you can kill indefinitely at your level (or one above), and around 12 non-stop of a few levels above. (Please note that if the mobs are spread out or low in number you won't need to drink on the tough ones, the regen is enough).

You will have to vary dependent on what you're fighting, throwing in a Silence is handy on those pesky healers. Also note my Priest is a BElf, so every third mob gets an Arcane Torrent and I get some mana back.

I did the areas the way they were intended, and did every quest except Elite/Group ones in each zone so far. Each time I finished a zone or all the quests were red, I moved to the next zone for my level, and then came back later when they'd turned yellow/orange.

You just have to quest sensibly, make sure you take every quest for the zone (from all of the various "hubs" i.e in STV visit Grom Gol, Nessingwary's Camp and Booty Bay first) and you'll find lots of quests for drops from the same mobs. It helps that this is my 4th char (got 2 lvl 60s and this 62) so I know how to get to places and where to move in turn next, but you'll get the hang of it.

If in doubt look for a map online that shows the level requirements for each zone, and move accordingly. Remember to set your HS regularly, especially if someone is sending you from STV to Shimmering Flats, you know you'll be coming back straight after.

Also set your HS and work from the camp out, so empty your bags and don't HS till every quest says "Complete" and you're bloody miles away. It's way quicker that way.

As for grinding, the above guide is still valid for mob levels, but it's not something I've ever done (unless it for those last couple of bars to ding)

Good luck people!

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Q u o t e:
Thank you Stilgarr. Would take in notise the following builds :D

But is there a more thorough "guide" on grinding spots, up-to-date items, and so on..? You have all been to much help this far..

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Priests have an advantage over pure dps classes in that you dont need to do as much actual grinding as they do. This is because even shadow spec you can heal perfectly fine in any instance upto the Outlands 10 man and Heroic runs ( not done them yet but heard they are healing intensive ).

For a full guide to 60 check James guilde at www.wow-pro.com (sp) but where he gives the choice of grinding or instance take the instance. Almost instant group so wont be a problem running more than once in a day.


For gear go to http://www.wow-loot.com/ not had chance to read fully in a while but i think it has been updated for TBC gear too.

btw the guide starts at lvl 30 due to the various starting areas so just make sure you complete all quests in the start zones first.

Having just dinged 20 and looking to go the shadow route I was wondering is mind flay something you just have to get right away, is it going to be that good even at this level?

Wands where something that I only used in desperation on my mage but up to 20 I've used one constantly, which I've ended putting 5 points in improving, hence my question above. Should I pay my 1g to rebuild already and take wand improvement later or push on and wait to 25 for mind flay?

Oh and if it's best to rebuild, just when should I be looking to put points into wands?

---

Q u o t e:
Having just dinged 20 and looking to go the shadow route I was wondering is mind flay something you just have to get right away, is it going to be that good even at this level?

Wands where something that I only used in desperation on my mage but up to 20 I've used one constantly, which I've ended putting 5 points in improving, hence my question above. Should I pay my 1g to rebuild already and take wand improvement later or push on and wait to 25 for mind flay?

Oh and if it's best to rebuild, just when should I be looking to put points into wands?

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Ok, yes you want Mindflay as soon as possibly really.

The builds above are a bit rough so have a look at these ones for a more step by step guide. Just remember everyone has their own way of playing so while these builds might not work for you they may for other people.


Level 14 http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?000000000000000000000000000000000000000000500000000000000000000 Spirit Tap is THE core spell for any grinding your going to do as it virtually eleminates any drinking. No drinking = No Downtime = More mobs killed

Level 19 http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?030000000000000000000000000000000000000000500200000000000000000

or

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?000000000000000000000000000000000000000000530200000000000000000

Some people like Blackout for the stun chance but personally I like the points in Wands as I can wand earlier in a fight to finish it off and be well outside the 5 second rule for full spirit tap.

Level 24 http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?030000000000000000000000000000000000000000500231010000000000000 3 ponts in Wands and at the moment you can put the other 3 points in blackout or focus as they are mainly filler points. Mindflay is a no brainer.

Level 29 http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?030000000000000000000000000000000000000000500252010020000000000 Now your starting to get into the Shadow Tree properly. I have 2 points in Shadow Weaving which increases shadow damage TAKEN by the mob. This talent does NOT increase your damage output but reduces the mobs resistance to your shadow damage INCLUDING shadow wands. You can put the 2 points into shadow reach if you want to for the added range but as they are both are going to be maxed out then there is not a massive difference in which ones you take first.

Level 34 http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?030000000000000000000000000000000000000000500252010250000000000 Just max your range and damage bonus from Weaving and Reach.

Level 40 http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/priest/talents.html?000000000000000000000000000000000000000000500252010251102041000 Respect time.

This should be the same as I have already posted above and gives you Shadow form. Any Shadow priest should take this at 40 regardless. It increases your damage by 15% and reduces physical damage taken by 15%. So make sure you take it.

Once your past 40 then aim for missed talents on the way to Shadowform, such as Silence, Improved VE, Darkness ect. Also you can put points back into Wands again.

The builds in my earlier post give an idea as to the direction after 40 for you.

Thanks for that Stilgarr, much more comprehensive than I had thought I'd get. :)

Totally agree about not all builds suit everyone but atm I'm running round like a headless chicken so the help is appreciated. Hopefully after another few levels I'll start to get the feel for this class a bit more.