Due to the misleading tooltip of devastate, there’s been some discussion as to the worth of this ability in tanking, how it compares to sunder & heroic strike, whether fast or slow weapons benefit more from it.

This guide will try to explore the workings of devastate, compare it to other tanking moves, explore where it’s useful and finally run some simulations to see what speed weapon benefits most.

This guide is valid as of patch 2.0.7. I will try to update if things change in future patches.

The tooltip on devastate rank 3 is:

“An instant weapon attack that causes 50% of weapon damage plus 35 and additional threat for each application of Sunder Armor on the target. In addition, this attack will renew the duration of the Sunder Armor effect.”

This suggests that the devastate formula is:

(wpn dmg + normalized ap) x 50% + 35 + # sunders x threat

Testing during the TBC beta by Lavina / The Venture Co – EU (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=78137860&postId=780908615&sid=1#0) showed this to be false. The testing showed the actual formuala to be:

(wpn dmg + normalized ap) x 50% + 25 x # of sunders + threat

This is a significant departure from what the tooltip indicates. The tooltip states a serious threat generator, the actual formula suggests a dps tool with added aggro.

As of 2.0.7, live testing shows Lavina’s formula to hold true still. This guide will use that formula.

Since the beta testing was done, devastate innate threat has been increased to 101.

How to maximise the effectiveness of Devastate?

An examination of the formula shows that devastate benefits greatly from the number of sunders on the mob. Let’s test devastate with 0 sunders and 5 sunders.

Assumptions:
Warrior is level 70, wielding a 71.7 dps GM/HW Slicer 2.6 speed one-hand sword.
Warrior has 1400 attack power.
Mob is also level 70 with 4000 base armor.

Armor reduction formual is: (Armor / (Armor - 22167.5 + 467.5 * Enemy_Level)) * 100
Mob armor mitigation with 0 sunders:
(4000 / (4000 – 22167,5 + 467,5 * 70)) * 100 = 27.5 %
Mob armor mitigation with 5 sunders:
(1400 / (1400 – 22167.5 + 467,5 * 70)) * 100 = 11.7 %

Weapon damage range = 149 – 224, average damage = 186,5
The warrior’s white swing would be, on average, 186.5 + 1400 / 14 * 2.6 =
447 before armor mitigation,
323 after mitigation,
394 after 5 sunders.

Devastate results with zero sunders:

Damage = (186.5 + 1400 / 14 * 2.4) x 50% + (35 x 0) = 213,25 * (1 – 27,5%) = 155
Threat = 155 + 101 = 256 threat

Devastate results with five sunders:

Damage = (186.5 + 1400 / 14 * 2.4) x 50% + (35 x 5) = 388,25 * (1 – 11,7%) = 343
Threat = 343 + 101 = 444 threat

Even without the armor reduction effect of sunder, the presence of sunder ups damage of devastate considerably. Along with the sunder effect, the damage has more than doubled.

Is Devastate better than Sunder Armor?

Sunder Armor at max rank does 301 aggro per application, lowers target’s armor by 520, can be stacked 5 times for the armor reduction effect but continues to generate threat past those initial 5.

Assuming we have already put the 5 sunders on, should we keep on spamming sunder or using devastate? Without any points in improved sunder armor, both sunder and devastate cost 15 rage and are spammable on the global cooldown. As seen from the above example, devastate delivers much higher threat than sunder armor.

What if we put in points to improved sunder armor? Assuming we also have focused rage, our devastates become 12 rage, our sunders become 9 rage. So we can ask two questions:
(1) Which move delivers higher threat per rage?
(2) What is the weapon damage required for devastate to surpass sunder armor?

From our previous calculation, devastate threat with 5 sunders = 444.
Sunder Armor at max rank does 301

Devastate Threat per Rage = 444 / 12 = 37
Sunder Armor Threat per Rage = 301 / 9 = 33,4

Devastate gives better return for the rage spent. We do both higher threat AND do dps, whereas sunder has no damage component.

So is devastate better because we used a high dps weapon? Let’s see what dps weapon is required to outdo sunder.

(wpn dmg + normalized ap) x 50% + 35 x 5 + 101 = 301

301 – 101 – (35 x 5) = 25 / 50% = 50. With any weapon + AP combo doing more than 50 damage per hit, devastate will deliver higher threat than sunder armor. A level 70 warriors just AP contribution will be higher than 50. Therefore devastate is a better tool than sunder armor under any condition.

Is Heroic Strike Better Than Devastate?

Due to HS being a “on next swing” ability and the somewhat unpredictable rage cost and differing spammability, making a direct comparison is harder. We can at the most model different scenarios and test.

Heroic Strike Rank 10 does: A strong attack that increases melee damage by 176 and causes a high amount of threat. Causes additional damage against Dazed targets”

Testing has shown the “high amount of threat” to be 196.

Normalized AP applies only to instant attacks therefore HS uses regular AP mechanics.

HS (10) damage = wpn dmg + ap + 176

For our warrior this means = 186.5 + 1400/14*2.6 + 176 = 622.5
Before armor mitigation = 623
After migitation = 452
After 5 sunders = 550

Obviously the single hit damage of HS is significantly higher. However, devastate is on the global cooldown timer, 1.5 seconds, while HS is on the swing timer of our slow weapon, 2.6 seconds. Let’s compare dps. Since HS is additional fixed damage to white swings, we can only compare HS extra damage per second to devastate dps as devastate dps is also in addition to white swing damage.

Devastate dps = 343 / 1.5 = 229
Heroic Strike dps = 176 / 2.6 = 67,7

From a pure dps point of view, the additional dps effect is significantly lower compared to devastate.

Heroic Strike of course benefits from a faster weapon, so lets see if using the GM Quickblade, with the same dps but 1.8 speed makes any difference regarding dps.

GM Quickblade data:
Damage range = 103 – 155, average damage = 129
Speed = 1.8

HS(10) damage = 129 + 1400/14*1.8 + 176 = 485
Before armor mitigation = 485
After mitigation = 352
After 5 sunders = 428

Devastate damage = (129 + 1400/14*2.4)x50% + 35x5 = 359.5
Before armor mitigation = 360
After 5 sunders = 318

Devastate dps = 318 / 1.5 = 212
HS dps = 176 / 1.8 = 97,7

Despite delivering big numbers on individual hits, the additional damage cannot catch up with devastate just because we use a faster weapon.

Since we want to see if HS can outdo devastate in a tanking situation, we also need to see the threat generation and the rage cost of it. Since devastate is on a global cooldown timer and HS is on a next swing, the only way we can compare the two is if we take a time frame and measure threat & rage performance.

We’ll take a 27 second fight to compare. This assumes the 27 seconds start after 5 sunders are applied.

During this time, we can do 15 Heroic Strikes OR 18 devastates and 15 normal white swings, since devastate is on a global cooldown and does not consume white swings.

Damage from 15 Heroic strikes = 15 x 428 = 6420
Threat from 15 Heroic Strikes = 15 x (428 + 196) = 9360
Rage cost of 15 Heroic Strikes = 9 x 15 = 135
Threat per second = 9360 / 27 = 347
Threat per rage = 69,3

Damage from 18 Devastates = 18 x 318 = 5724
Damage from 15 white swings = 15 x (129 + 1400/14*1.8) * (1- 11.7%) = 4093
Total damage = 5724 + 4093 = 9817
Rage cost of 18 devastates = 18 x 12 = 216
Rage gain from white swings = 15 x ((272,9 / 274,7)*7,5+2.5*1.8)/2 = 89
Net rage cost of 18 devastates = 216 – 89 = 127
Total Threat = 18 x (318 + 101) + 4093 = 11635
Threat per second = 11635 / 27 = 431
Threat per rage = 91,6

So, even with a fast weapon that favors Heroic Strike on a per hit basis, Devastate significantly outperforms Heroic Strike in dps, total threat, threat per second, threat per rage categories.

Admittedly, the white swings that help put devastate in front of HS are subject to glancing blows but even with glancing blows factored in, Devastate outperforms HS to such an extent that it should always be the preferred threat generator


Edit: Edited the HS dps part to make clear that HS damage is really HS bonus damage per second, as per suggestions below.

So is Heroic Strike just a rage dump, nothing more?

Yes and no. In a tank & spank scenario in a raid setting, HS will be a primarily rage dump, As nice a talent devastate is, it’s limited by the global cooldown timer which is shared across many of warrior abilities. If the warrior needs to incorporate more utility into his tanking (thunderclap, shouts, stance dancing, shield reflect/bash, etc), the limited global cooldown becomes a serious bottleneck. The “on next swing” mechanic of Heroic Stike makes it a good alternative.

As tanks we have many tools at our disposal.
Devastate is an aggro / rage efficiency tool
Heroic Strike is a rage dump / utility tool.
We use the tool for the job.

Rage dump, ok. But i’m swimming in rage, so i should be primarily using HS?

“Swimming in rage” is something that should be ringing alarm bells for any competent tank. Some excess rage is normal after filling out your global cooldown with revenge, shield slam and devastate. That is a good time to drain out your rage with heroic strike. Our job is to (a) mitigate damage, (b) create aggro.. Rage is our only fuel for doing so. But if you’re consistently finding your rage above 50, check if:

(a) you are undergeared for the instance. If this is the case, it’s a temporary situation
(b) normal geared, hard hitting boss. Are you keeping up your shield block? Is thunderclap, curse of weakness, demo shout up on the boss? You might still end up with excess rage but you should be soaking it up with HS before it starts building up too much.
(c) Trick fight like Vaelestrazs. As it says, it’s a trick fight, normal to have excess rage then
(d) Stun boss. This is one case where you might get bursts of high rage inflow. It should be emptied out as quickly, meaning burst threat. Meaning you spam devastate and HS.
(e) You’re overgeared for the instance. Stop slacking :D

I’m confused. OK Devastate is better but do i use a fast weapon or a slow one?

Since our primary rage income is from damage taken, our threat generation ability is determined purely by incoming damage. Choice of weapon speed should be made entirely on the instance requirement and a good tank will carry multiple weapons in his/her inventory to fit the situation. An intereting example: With a 1.5 speed weapon, a tank can theoretically spend more rage than incoming on Vaelestrazs. However for most of the rest of BWL damage income on a T2 equipped warrior will benefit from a slow devastate weapon. Personally i try to keep 3 weapons, a fast one (as fast as i can find), a slow one (as slow as i can find) and a 2.0 speed one and use the one appropriate.

Hmm, i’m still not convinced. What if you tried different gear / AP / timings / etc?

You’re welcome to try. I’ve put together a small excel simuation and devastate outperformed Heroic Strike on every combination of gear, incoming damage, crit rate, etc.

Caveats
I based all my calculation on Lavina’s testing and threat values. I’m personally convinced of the work done there and didnt feel the need to retest everything. Lavina has confimed that threat values have been extensively tested after beta and that the values in the sticky are still valid as of patch 2.0.3 and i havent felt any noticable change in later patches.

Another point to keep in mind is that during beta, there was a Rank 11 Heroic Strike available. Later, it dissapeared from trainers and is reported to be available through an instance drop book, much like AQ20. This rank has yet to be seen. Initial testing & guesswork from the Beta when it was available shows this Rank 11 to equal or beat devastate in performance. However, until we see the book drop & test the final threat values, devastate remains the king of threat generation. And who is to say that there isnt a book on Rank4 devastate?

OK, nice theorycraft, and I'm intruiged by the analysis of weapon speed options, however...

What's the equivalent theorycraft of Devastate vs. Shield Slam?

Shield Slam is always better aggro and better aggro/rage than devastate. And revenge is better than shield slam. But then, revenge is a triggered ability on a 5 second cooldown, shield slam is on a 6 second cooldown. We dont have access to those whenever we want. But they should always be given priority whenever they're up.

Oohla's spreadsheets on Wowwiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Oohlas_Spreadsheets) for tanking cycles & threat building is a good reference. It's for level 60 but the ideas still hold for level 70. Even more so considering the availability of shield block gear in TBC.

Nice work and interesting read. And your conclusions definitely sound right by my experience.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I made a little program that calculates Devastate damage and threat based on your weapon, attack power, and the mob mitigation, and produces a scaling table based on increasing AP for that.

Shame I don't know how to make a website that lets you input that via POST variables, but it's just a measly Python script, and I have no idea how to do Python/web publishing :)

Great work thanx, like to see rage generation from the attacks taken into consideration also how does this compare to a hybrid spec, MS and Bloodthirst?

Nice topic indeed, well founded, it should make alot of things more clear for the general audience.

You mentioned some of the following, though I'll emphasize it again for the readers with a short attention span.

Both Revenge and Shield Slam are better than Devastate and Heroic Strike for any purpose

Most of the the above models require the application of 5 Sunders Make sure to notice.

As for a few comments. The HS dps addition is very misleading, since it replaces the white attack. The proper dps addition should be 176/weaponspeed, without the weapon damage,

On a small sidenote, if someone is able to run a 10-30 sec model that involves pure Devastate+Heroic Strike spamming with the following weapons:
Speed 2.6 Damage 182 Dps 70
Speed 1.8 Damage 126 Dps 70

I think that would be a great addition to this topic. Afraid I don't have the time to do it myself.

Once again, good work Fledern

Good job. Lavina too :)

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Q u o t e:
As for a few comments. The HS dps addition is very misleading, since it replaces the white attack. The proper dps addition should be 176/weaponspeed, without the weapon damage

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Yes, exactly what I was thinking... You may want to adjust that.
Apart from that, an excellent topic.
This should get its spot in one of the stickies imo...

Best i can do is link this: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pOpDxd9ObmI6HCyShH8i0aQ

The original excel file includes a integer linear optimization program to be used with the solver addon and calculates max threat possible for a given incoming damage, weapon & AP, mob armor, etc.

The model also includes glancing blows, crits, miss/dodge/parry etc into consideration. It gives priority to revenge & shield slam and keeps shield block up at all times to make sure revenge is available on every cooldown.

Unfortunately google doesnt allow a download option so you can only view the static output. I left it with a 600 dps incoming damage as that gives you a rage budget that'll exceed what you can drain with your global cooldowns. If you look at the number of devastates/ heroic strikes applied, you can see the program opted to max out devastates and waste the excess rage on heroic strike.

I've run the same program with the different weapons listed on the far right top and the results are almost always the same. The only time the program opted for heroic strike before devastate was for the mysterious Rank 11 HS. If you'll look at threat & damage progression of HS through ranks, you'll notice the Beta Rank 11 had a significant jump in damage & threat so that's not surprising. We'll have to recalculate when we start seeing Rank 11.

You're right. I edited the HS dps bit. Interesting how abysmally bad HS is unless you're literally swimming in rage

Google says I'm not authorized to view that document. *sad face*

Hmm, I tend to not like theorycrafting but I read some of your points and they hold value.

Also, judging by personal experience, I find devastate a good way to add some good "DPS" to my threat generation too. As prot you actually got much rage at your disposal in difficult encounters. After the 5th sunder I tend to do a cycle of block/SS/revenge (with the odd Battle Stance for TC) and spam Devastate as much as possible. A slow weapon will do considerable damage. Pack up the auto/SS/revenge damage too and you got more than a tank that does minimal dps output.

Of course, the damage isn't that great, but it DOES help a lot from my experience. Plus, it's a good tool to grind with fury gear. At least you won't be stuck on auto attack/WW.

Very nice analysis, may be a good idea to either have it sticked or post it as an adendum to Lavina's post.

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Q u o t e:
Google says I'm not authorized to view that document. *sad face*

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Hehe, i need to L2Usegooglesheets. Link fixed, it should work now.

Does anyone know a good place to host excel files? the solver program is fun to play with.

*hug all*

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Q u o t e:
Atm I'm using Millenium Blade with a +15 agility enchant on it, should I look to get a slower weapon? Millenium Blade is a 2.0 speed weapon that drops from Black Morass, and I love the look of it.

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Good weap. Altho I had a drop last night in Arcatraz, some first weapon, main hand, with very slow speed. I can't remember the name now :(. Millenium blade works too, but lacks other defensive stuff you can get from Crystalline Kopesh or something.