Original sticky in the EU Druid forums by Kynth, 60 NE Druid, Excillius de Astrum on Nordrassil.

There have been a great many threads scattered across the forums regarding balance issues for druids. A lot of the topics have boiled down to discussions focussing on itemisation and play style.

This post is an attempt to answer many of the commonly asked questions and stock counter-arguments that Druids are currently facing.

Q. What is a hybrid?
A. A dictionary defines a hybrid as "Something of mixed origin or composition". In World of Warcraft terms, a Hybrid is a class that can perform two or more roles.

Q. Is the Druid class a hybrid class?
A. There are two schools of thought in the Druid community.

The first point of view is that as Druids are able to perform more than one role and so should be called Hybrids. This view is also the most commonly experienced opinion of non-Druid players.

The second point of view, is that because druids can only perform one role effectively at any one time, they are not Hybrids but something else. The term Role Switcher has been used in several areas of the Druid community.

It's also important to note the difference between "Roles" and "Hybrid Roles". A Role is the classic Tanking, Healing or DPS Role. A "Hybrid Role" is performing two or more roles at the same time. A little bit of Healing, a little of fighting for example.

Shamans and Paladins are perfect examples of classes who can perform "Hybrid Roles".

A Druid does not perform a "Hybrid Role", they perform one of the classic Roles at any given time.

This is a subtle, if very important, difference to note when discussing whether a Druid is a Hybrid class or not.

Q. What do you mean druids can't perform more than one role at any one time?
A. Druids have several Forms that they must turn themselves into in order to perform a role. For example they must spend mana and suffer the global cooldown in order to turn themselves into a Bear in order to perform the Tank role. Once in this role, they are unable to effectively perform Healing or DPS roles. At any one time, a Druid can only perform one role effectively.

Q. What do you mean by "perform one role effectively". Druids can still heal and fight, right?
A. Druids can heal, and Druids can fight, but they cannot heal-and-fight. The main reson for this is a Druid cannot physically use certain skills when in a Form and performing a given role.

This is also where items become a problem. In order to be effective at their role, every class needs to use equipment targeted for that role. A rogue needs gear focussing on Agility, a Warrior needs gear focussing on Stamina.

The items that exist for Druids focus on these roles just like any other class, so a Druid must wear clothes for the role they are performing. If a Druid is tanking they must wear Stamina gear. If they are healing they need to wear +Healing gear just like everyone else.

Q. OK, a Druid has to wear gear specific to a role. So does everyone else. What's the problem?
A. The main ability of a druid is to change roles, but performing the roles effectively means wearing the right kind of gear. Most gear targets the stats that are needed for a specific role. A druid cannot change their gear during combat.

If they are wearing Tanking gear then don't expect much healing from a Druid, a small amount maybe, but nothing that will have an impact. Conversely, a Druid in Healing gear may be able to Tank for a few seconds in an emergency, but they cannot last.

Q. But a Warrior can either DPS or Tank too. They have to choose their gear and can't swap either.
A. A warrior can Tank or DPS at 100% effectiveness if they are wearing the right gear. A Druid can tank, but it would not be fair to Warriors if they could tank as well as a Warrior can.

Let's say an equally equipped and skilled Druid player can tank 80% as well as a Warrior because they are wearing gear specific to Tanking, they won't be anywhere near even 80% effective at DPS or Healing.

This means a Warrior can perform at least one role at 100% effectiveness. This is not a complaint, Druids are happy for Warriors. It just highlights at what level we can perform.

Q. Many Druids claim they can Tank/DPS/Heal better than a Warrior/Rogue/Priest/Mage/Warlock...
A. Maths don't lie. An equally skilled and equipped Druid can never outperform an equally skilled player of a "Parent Class" wearing equal gear in their role. Before I get flamed for this, note the word "equally".

Q. If druids cannot perform a role at 100% effectiveness, as defined by a "Parent Class", why play them? Why not roll a Priest?
A. Performing a role at 100% effectiveness and being 100% effective are not the same thing.

Blizzard says of Druids that "Forms are not as versatile as their counterpart classes, but they might be considered as powerful".

Let's say that the "Raw Power" allows them to perform 80% of a role effectively. By this logic Druids have the "Raw Power" of a Rogue when it comes to DPS. What gives Rogues that extra 20% for example, is all of their additional abilities, their "Tricks", such as Vanish, Feint, Gouge, Blind, etc.

80% "Raw Power" plus 20% of "Tricks" makes the Rogue 100% effective at the DPS role.

A Druids "Trick" is the ability to switch between roles, to swap the 80% around so to speak.

Q. Druids can perform 80% of a role and should be 100% effective overall by switching roles.
A. Correct, however because Druids cannot change gear during combat, they cannot switch that 80% during an encounter. As a result, druids cannot be 100% effective during the encounter.

Q. So what a lot of Druids want is the ability to Tank/Heal/DPS at say a maximum of 80% effectivess but have the ability swap between roles at will?
A. Bingo!

Q. Is this a new idea?
A. No, when the game was first released all classes used to be able to swap their gear. This meant a Druid could be 80% effective at all roles during the same encounter and switch between roles if they were quick enough.

Q. Isn't that overpowered? Won't there be NERF! and IMBA! calls?
A. I'm sure there will be these calls, and some from some sections of the Druid community as well.

Always remember, we can only perform one role at any one time.

Other classes are able to perform at 100% effectiveness at all times. A Druid will still have to work hard to make up for that missing 20% effectiveness in a role in order to become 100% effective.

Q. Are all Druids pushing for this?
A. No, some Druids are happy sticking to one role constantly, be it Tanking or Healing for example. The rest of the Community do not want to remove the option of specialising from this portion of our community. We are not looking to increase our ability in any one role, but return the ability to perform all roles equally well e.g. all roles at 80% effectivess.

Q. How do you want to restore this flexibilty to the Druid class?
A. Stats are the key, and although we gain some benefits from underlying formula's such as the Strength bonus in Bear Form, we need items that give a range of stats useful to each role we can perfrom with large bonuses to those stats.

Q. Druids already have Hybrid gear that gives them a range of stats don't they?
A. Only certain stats are important to certain roles. Agility and Stamina are important for Tanking whereas Intellect and +Healing are important for Healing.

If an item has Agility, Stamina, Intellect and +Healing, then only half of the items bonuses are accessible to a Druid at any one time.

Unfortunately because of the way the games item formula's work, for an item to have all four of the stats then each individual stat is lower than an item that only had two stats. Often individual stats are 30-50% lower.

This lowers a Druids effectiveness at performing a Role still further.

Q. What about the Genesis set, Epic Item A, Epic Item B or Cenarion Reward C?
A. The key word you mention is Epic. There a few items that help yes, however these are very difficult to get a hold of. The average player does not have easy access to the instances that contain these items and even then the role-specific stats are not quite sufficient. No other class has to enter 40-man raid instances or gain Exalted reputation in order to access the only items that are critical to their role.

Q. What are Druids proposing?
A. There are variety of suggestions. These include:

#1 Present items with a variety of stats such as the Songbird blouse, but allow higher bonuses to individual stats.
#2 Use "Switcher" items that change stats as a Druid changes Forms
#3 Add "EQUIP:" clauses specific to a Druids Forms
#4 Allow the changing of gear during combat again, in some fashion that does not reintroduce the exploits that caused the ability to be removed in the first place.

What Druids are very conscious of though is conveying the reason for these additional bonuses. Druids need to help other players understand why Druids would get an extra stat at +20 and not be overpowered for example. Whatever method is selected needs to take this into account.

One of the easiest suggestions to implement is nicely summarised in Caelans thread in the Suggestions forum. This recommends the use of "EQUIP:" clauses.

We are seeing these kind of items in previews of the Burning Crusade exapansion, however at the moment these items are still extremely difficult to attain.

More importantly, these kind of items need to be placed throughout the game, as drops and rewards, inside and outside of Raid environments at a variety of character levels.

Q. Where can I find Caelans thread?
A. Caelans post was still active on the suggestions forum when i (Athinira) copied this sticky. I reposted his suggestions, and you may find them in post 4+5 in this thread. You may also want to search for threads posted by Arkarion, Sarokh and Aile who are all veteran players with excellent points on the topic.

Quick link to Caelans thread:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=14581738&postId=149201528&sid=1#4

Q. Are there any other suggestions?
A. Arkarion has been campaigning for Switching Gear, that is gear that changes stats as you shapeshift. The closest analogy is the Priest Staff "Benediction".

Arkarions summary post was lost in the old forums, and unless someone saved it its not retrieveable. If someone ever saved it to their harddrive, please post here or catch me (Athinira) on the druid IRC channel #eu-druids on quakenet, where i often visit.

Q. Are there similarities between the suggestions?
A. Yes. Essentially they are all looking at providing Druids with a wide range of decent bonuses across all stats that are useful to a Druid.

Q. Isn't having all these bonuses overpowered?
A. No. The reason is down to this whole "Druids can only do one role at one time" thing. In Bear Form, only Stamina and Armour are really important, Healing or Intellect bonuses are useless, for example.

A Druids strength is switching between roles that are effective. If a Druid cannot switch to another role and be effective in that role, then they are simply a poor imitation of another class. With the current state of play, a Druid can either be a poor imitation of a Warrior, Priest, Rogue or Mage.

For all roles to be effective up to that example 80% figure and allow a Druid to compete, Druids need respectable bonuses in all of the stats that they use.

Q. What about in PvP?
A. Even with this gear, if you faced an equally skilled Druid player wearing equal gear rebalanced as discussed, you would only ever be facing a class that is 80% as effective as a "Parent Class". The Druid would still have to work hard to shapeshift between forms in order to compete with you.

Q. Couldn't a druid just shapeshift into the rock-paper-scissor class that works best against my class?
A. That would be part of the challenge for the Druid player, however if Rogues were your "bogy class" and a Druid identified that using Cat Form to fight you, then you would still only be facing 80% of the power of a rogue. You should have a much better chance at fighting off the Druid.

Q. Are there any other item problems that Druids experience?
A. The main ones are weapons with DPS and "Chance on Hit:" bonuses. Essentially these are worthless bonuses to a Druid. If an item has a respectable DPS or "On Hit:" benefit, these affect the items overall balance formula and reduces the amount of Stat bonuses that there will be. The ideal Druid Weapon has pitiful DPS, nonexistent "Chance on Hit:" procs and instead has a shedload of bonuses to stats.

Q. Someone like a Paladin can only do one thing at a time. If they Heal they have to stop fighting just like Druids.
A. A Paladin is able to heal while fighting. A Druid can either heal or fight.

Being able to "Heal while you Tank", which is a "Hybrid Role" that Paladins perform very well, is very different from switching between pure Tanking and Healing roles.

It's very important to note the difference.

If a Druid in Bear Form could still cast Healing Spells, then a Druid could perform the "Hybrid Role" of Tanking while Healing at the same time. A more direct comparison with paladins could then be made, however Druids are not asking for this ability.

Paladins also have their own class problems, and Druids hope they have these problems resolved as well.

Q. Druids can instantly heal themselves. Isn't that unbalanced?
A. In order to do this, a druid has had to invest heavily in the Restoration talent tree, significantly reducing their offensive power. With the cooldowns that a druid also suffers on these abilities the talents are drawn into balance with the shielding and healing abilities of Priests and Paladins.

Q. Has it always been this way for Druids?
A. Only since the ability to change gear in combat was removed from the game. Lower level characters of any class are not as reliant on stats as higher level characters so the problem is not as noticeable. When you reach level 60, the only way to progress is through aquiring gear with higher stats, this is where the gulf begins to widen.

When you could swap your gear in combat a Druid always had the possibility of remaining highly effective in all Roles whenever they shapeshifted.

Q. Why did Blizzard remove the ability to swap gear in combat?
A. The ability was being abused by players who removed their gear right before they died. That way they wouldn't receive a repair bill.

Q. You have posted an incorrect assumption and so your arguments are flawed.
A. I am always open to being corrected, please post your reasons in a polite and constructive manner though, I like being treated nicely :)

Q. I'm always asked a question or other players misunderstand an aspect of our class but you haven't posted it.
A. List the question and the reasons for it and I'll add it to the FAQ.

Q. How do we convey these problems to Blizzard?
A. Hopefully Crezax will gather the information, pass it onto the relevant people and provide some feedback to the community on how Druids view their class compared to how the Devs view the class.

Original post by Caelan, 60 Tauren Druid, Chromaggus.

Ah hell, I am giving it a whoop.

I have been working on this suggestion though.
I'd like to post it just to see what kind of criticism it will receive.

Before I start with my proposal lets clear a few things for Blizzard.

Clearly, you have the wrong idea about what is the druid, so... what is the druid?
A druid is a hybrid. But not just a normal hybrid. We are a unique class, and shouldn't be treated as if we were the same hybrid as a paladin and a shaman.

What kind of hybrid are we then?
We are shapeshifters. We can do 4 different things, thus implying we are a hybrid, but we can't do all things at the same time, implying we are not your standard hybrid.

How are we treated?
We are given the option to either specialise into one role (with a wink towards healing), or take so called "hybrid gear" and be totally gimped.
Current hybrid gear is made like this: The higher the item level, the more stats that item will get. A hybrid item will get the same amount of stats as a pure class, at the same item level, however the stats on the hybrid item are simply more spread out. Like a pure class will get 30/30 and a hybrid 15/15/15/15. All fine right?
You couldn't be more wrong blizzard! This is why the druid as hybrid fails.
So hybrid gear is not an option for us. We have to specialise in order to do atleast somewhat.

And here is the catch. You can't ask a druid to specialise. Because if we specialise, we are bound to the form we specialise in. Go specialise in bear form and be a nice tank with nice aggro holding. However in any form BUT the bear form, you are a huge gimp. And you can't spend all the time in your bear form/cat form or moonkin form. You simply HAVE to use ALL forms in order to be efficient. Ofcourse in raiding this is less stressfull, but still a druid would be more viable if he could adjust role apropiately according to any changes in the situation.

A druid can mimic classes. It can be either a warrior, mage, priest or rogue like, but not nearly as powerful (working as intended!) so, if you ask a mimic (shapeshifter) to specialise into 1 class, they'd still be ofcourse less efficient then the pure class, and then the whole concept of a mimicing, trough shapeshifting class is broken in the first place. We don't have to many unique, irreplacable buffs like the shaman and the paladin who are very viable, even when specialised. A druid is not.

So, we druids need hybrid gear. Hybrid gear that works.

First, I am going to do an equation with thought up easy items, just to make my point very clear.
I will display 3 items. One being a pure class item, one being a shaman hybrid item one being a druid hybrid item

Stats for the rogue:
200 armor
30 Agi
30 Stam

Stats for the shaman:
400 armor (Mail)
20 Str
20 Intel
10 Stam
10 Spirit

Stats for the druid:
200 armor (Leather)
20 Str
20 Intel
10 Stam
10 Spirit

Any player who looks to raw numbers will say these items are of equal power in every single way, except the armor. WRONG! In fact, very wrong. This is where the gimping of the druid begins. The item for the druid is terribly underpowered compared to the others. Why? They look the same? Let me open your eyes.
A druid is 1 thing at any given time. He is either a bear, cat, moonkin or itself. None of our forms require all stats. So the actual stats we get in each form are:

Bear form: 20 Str, 10 Stam, 10 Spirit = 40 stat points.
Cat form: 20 Str, 10 Stam, 20 Spirit = 40 stat points.
Moonkin form: 20 Intel, 10 Stam, 10 Spirit = 40 stat points
Caster form: 20 Intel, 10 Stam, 10 Spirit = 40 stat points.

As you can see, the druid gets a measly 40 stat points ON AVERAGE, whereas a shaman gets the full monty, 60 stat points.
In order to equal these two items out, the druid item should look like this:

200 armor
30 Intel
15 Stam
15 Spirit
Equip:+20 Str, +10 Agi in Bear/Cat form only.

Averages:
Bear form: 20 Str, 10 Agi, 15 Stam, 15 Spirit = 60 stat points
Cat form: 20 Str, 10 Agi, 15 Stam, 15 Spirit = 60 stat points
Moonkin form: 30 Intel, 15 Stam, 15 Spirit = 60 stat points
Caster form: 30 Intel, 15 Stam, 15 Spirit = 60 stat points

As you can see, now we get on average the same amount the shaman will get on average. Although it may look overpowered on the first glance, think about it a few times and you'll realise these two items are equal in power.
Before we go on, I would like to get one thing clear, namely, "druids shouldn't be good at everything". The beauty about druids, we CANT be everything, therefore we cant be good at everything. We can be good at EITHER two different things, but not good at everything.

You wouldn't consider a WARRIOR ONLY helm with +20 Str +20 Agi + 2 crit +20 Stam +20 intel +2 spellcrit +40 damage/healing overpowered because a warrior only uses the first 4 bonuses. The same goes for druids, in a different way. The druid can shift and take use of either the first 4 or the last 4 bonuses. But never all of them. So even though the helm gives 7 bonuses flat out, the druid still can only use 4 per form. Making it look overpowered but in fact is not
.
Now things will get a little more complicated. Lets compare two hybrid items that already exist in WoW.

Vest of the five thunders.
387 armor
12 Str
17 Intel
17 Stam
16 Spi
+1 Spellcrit
+14 damage/healing

Feralheart Vest
185 armor
16 Str
9 Agi
17 Intel
17 Stam
14 Spi
+4mp5
+12 damage/healing.

They are pretty much equal, you would say at first glance. But the opposite is true. Lets say things that aren't stats like spellcrit and the like, each gives a 5 stat point.
(The higher stat points I give per spellcrit and the like, the more the average total stat points of the druids item would go down by comparisment.)

The shaman gets a total of 12+17+17+16 = 62 stat points. 1 Spell crit and 14 damage/healing = 72
The total stat point feralheart gives will be 16+9+17+17+14+10 = 83

Feralheart is better you would say. But this class and it's gear are not understood.

So, what does a druid get per form:
Bear form: 16Str +9Agi +17Stam +14Spi = 56
Cat form: 16Str +9Agi +17Stam +14Spi = 56
Moonkin form: 17Intel +17Stam +14Spi +10(mp5 and damage) = 58
Casterform: 17Intel +17Stam +14Spi +10(mp5 and healing) = 58

Average stats for a druid thus being 57. Thats 15 points lower then the shaman will get out of this item.

So, any hybrid gear is a total gimp, because per form, (and you should ALWAYS count PER FORM with a druid) we get WAY less stats then a normal hybrid would get.

So that's why hybrid gear gimps us. Which forces us to specialise, which makes us less viable, which makes less druids keep playing their class, down the spiral.

So, what kind of gear should blizzard have in mind for druids? Like I posted earlier.
Simple. Items that give int/spir/stam/healing/mp5 in caster form, and when in other forms, it gives stats viable for that form.
It's not that easy, because you have to weigh for example the exact amount of stat points 1 melee crit would be, or 300 armor.
But when a class gets 72 points, or 82 points or 4072 points in one item, the AVERAGE points calculated when in ALL FOUR FORMS should be equal to that.
So the formula should be: Total stat points in bear+cat+moonkin+caster : 4 = the Total stat points of any other regular item at the same item level.

For example, feralheart should look like this: and keep in mind this is a blatant example, I do not know for how many stat points armour would count, or crits. This is just a pure example to show blizzard in what direction they should be sitting.

Feralheart Vest.
185 armor
24 intel
17 Stam
14 Spirit
+4mp5
+18 damage and healing
Equip: Gives + 17 agi, + 17 str + 1 crit in cat form only
Equip: Gives +17 stam, +9 agi, +8 str +300 armor (can't be multiplied) in bear form only
Equip: Gives + 12 damage, + 1 spellcrit in moonkin form only.

The average stat points given per form are now around 70. Making it equal compared to the shaman (72)
This would make us "ok" in any form, good in the form you are specced, instead of the "ok" you are specced in, and really just a free kill in the rest.

The only problem is it LOOKS overpowered, but in practice it isn't. And that's what I am trying to show you.

Bring on the "L2P" and the flames. You can't prove to me that a class that is proven the least feared class in PvP, and the least class played overal is fine and working perfectly.

Druids have been patient enough. It's time to get into action blizzard!

~Cae

Thanks for the repost and re-sticky Athinira :-)

Regards,
Kynth

Thanks for the post, its a good read, and now that feeling of "no matter what I do I dont seem to make much progress" is a bit more 'statistically' justified. I can only cross my fingers with hope that this will even be taken seriously by those in power.

I love my druid, sure it's hard to do a lot of things, and the feeling of "maybe I should've rolled a rogue/warrior" is a bit unbearable at times (I'm feral), but it's the character of the class that draws me to it, so I must ignore the stats; play naiive. It is very depressing to watch everyone leave me behind sometimes, and I truly hope that the stastics are one day brought up to the level in which I regard the druids 'character'.

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Q u o t e:

Q. Druids can instantly heal themselves. Isn't that unbalanced?
A. In order to do this, a druid has had to invest heavily in the Restoration talent tree, significantly reducing their offensive power. With the cooldowns that a druid also suffers on these abilities the talents are drawn into balance with the shielding and healing abilities of Priests and Paladins.

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Excelent post/repost and one note: this has been changed in 1.11 or so with NS now being a trainable ability, so whatever your spec you get that, plus druids in dire bear form (bear in lvl 40+ for non-druid readers), get a HoT self (at the exchange of accumulated rage that thus is not spent making dmg!) even while in bear form, and with a different CD.

Still, excelent reading, but I personaly don't think Blizzard is too worried about this: they have far more work on their hands and bugs to fix than people to do it so "fixing" a class is kind of going to happen in 2 years time... Of course, no one will be playing WoW by then, so it's not going to happen. Sorry for the "pessimistic" words here, but my relationship with Blizzard so far makes me think that way... Would be more than happy to be proven wrong on this one, though! :)

I for one am stuck at resto druid, because has more demand on later levels for healing in instances due to priest shortage, but when I have to go PvE, I pretty much suck... And I loose to any priest, even though people who know me say I'm a good healer, those who don't know me don't want to play in a group to be healed by a druid and want a priest instead...

Also, a final note: you can also add to the list that a druid performing a resto job has a huge amount of effort to loose aggro: he needs to shapeshift to cat, use cower, then shapeshift back to caster form to continue healing: 3 spells each consuming druid's mana and time. And if that fails, he probably has to go into another shapeshift into bear form so as to be able to take some beating while someone aggroes the beast that is on him, wasting even more mana (2 more shapeshifts) and time... :(

EDIT: Typo fix.

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Q u o t e:

Feralheart Vest.
185 armor
24 intel
17 Stam
14 Spirit
+4mp5
+18 damage and healing
Equip: Gives + 17 agi, + 17 str + 1 crit in cat form only
Equip: Gives +17 stam, +9 agi, +8 str +300 armor (can't be multiplied) in bear form only
Equip: Gives + 12 damage, + 1 spellcrit in moonkin form only.

The average stat points given per form are now around 70. Making it equal compared to the shaman (72)
This would make us "ok" in any form, good in the form you are specced, instead of the "ok" you are specced in, and really just a free kill in the rest.

The only problem is it LOOKS overpowered, but in practice it isn't. And that's what I am trying to show you.

Bring on the "L2P" and the flames. You can't prove to me that a class that is proven the least feared class in PvP, and the least class played overal is fine and working perfectly.

Druids have been patient enough. It's time to get into action blizzard!

~Cae

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This is great idea whitch making us better at pvp and also able to use our sets for multi rolling, we souldnt have to have "healing equip, dpsing equip tanking equip, ...whatever equip"

imho: there is not druid who want spam heal and watch how others fight all those druids rerolled priest :P with this gear we can leave some heal on others and continue dpsing or oftank if needed. Healing is priest job Dont make dr00ds healbots !!:(( look at our icon There is bear claw ! Well we r not as good dps as rogue We r not as good tank as warrior or good nuker as mage We r Good becouse we can do everything (or we should) our job is imho doing what situiation needs not stick on one like now becouse we cannot change gear . . .if we want do only one role we rolled Pure class not druid!! Its bit senceless do only one rolle with class who canot do it as good as pure class.

Right, to make a long story as short as possible as I already started to write this post just before forums went down for a short period of time (and of course I lost that one).
Generaly I agree on idea of having adaptable gear or swithcable gear for druids to help us play that 100% role.

Still, there is one major flaw I think I found in this argumentation of yours and would like to stress it out.
Namely, as I noticed you are basing your arguments mostly on "Healing mode" and "Tanking mode". True, those two modes can be played only one upone time, hence that very subtile diference between full hybrid and role swithcing class.

But... (there is always some "but" *smile*) how to explain that.
I am not good in statistics so I'll just talk from my own expiriance. Namely, beside feral modes (bear for tanking and cat for DPS) there are in my opinion two submodes while beeing in humanoid form. First is already mentioned "Healing mode", the second I'll call "Offencive casting mode", which mimics caster class (mage, warlock).

So, there you have it. In my humbel opinion if you see it in that light you truely get druid as a hybrid class as you can on one hand do healing and and on other some (even though very slight) damage. That of course doesn't exlude option for addaptable gear, as it would be also nice to have statistics (again, mind that I am not much into statistic) which amplify both healing and DPS spells, not minding that Balance/Resto druids are quite equal to mages. Howcome? Well, maybe you can't do so much damage as mage does with his DPS spells (far less in fact). on the other hand mages don't have any selfhealing spells.

But this is just my point of view. Pleas, go ahead and proof me wrong or right.

Sincerly

Ardhel

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Q u o t e:

But... (there is always some "but" *smile*) how to explain that.
I am not good in statistics so I'll just talk from my own expiriance. Namely, beside feral modes (bear for tanking and cat for DPS) there are in my opinion two submodes while beeing in humanoid form. First is already mentioned "Healing mode", the second I'll call "Offencive casting mode", which mimics caster class (mage, warlock).

So, there you have it. In my humbel opinion if you see it in that light you truely get druid as a hybrid class as you can on one hand do healing and and on other some (even though very slight) damage. That of course doesn't exlude option for addaptable gear, as it would be also nice to have statistics (again, mind that I am not much into statistic) which amplify both healing and DPS spells, not minding that Balance/Resto druids are quite equal to mages. Howcome? Well, maybe you can't do so much damage as mage does with his DPS spells (far less in fact). on the other hand mages don't have any selfhealing spells.

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If you are referring to Caelan's shapeshifting gear, I think he already accounted the fact that druid can do damage in caster form, instead of healing only.

In his last example, he gave no healing but damage/healing instead regularly on the armor. And the moonkin was added as a form :)

~Grea

a slight point that needs making, is that the item level formulas actually *do* give you slightly more stats when spread out over more than one bonus.

Easy example from incendius drops:

Cinderhide Bracers of Strength
+15 str

Cinderhide Bracers of The Bear
+10 str
+10 stm


:)

What if they changed it so that intellect gave a bonus to strength, agility or stamina when shapeshifted so that equipment with let's say +10 int, gave the equivalent of +5 sta in bear form and +5 agi in cat form.

The reasoning being that a druid with better intellect would be able to make a better shapeshifted form.

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Q u o t e:
Q. What are Druids proposing?
A. There are variety of suggestions. These include:

#1 Present items with a variety of stats such as the Songbird blouse, but allow higher bonuses to individual stats.
#2 Use "Switcher" items that change stats as a Druid changes Forms
#3 Add "EQUIP:" clauses specific to a Druids Forms
#4 Allow the changing of gear during combat again, in some fashion that does not reintroduce the exploits that caused the ability to be removed in the first place.

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Suggestion #1 would definitely make items LOOK overpowered or even BE overpowered.
Suggestions #1, #2 and #3 require too much work to be done, changing hundreds of items.

As i see it, the best (and the easiest) solution too most of our problems would be something similar to suggestion #4. Not the ability to change gear during combat, but a different set of equiped items for each form.

I.e. when you shapeshift into bear, all the items that you had equiped in caster form become unavailable. They dont go to inventory, they just dissapear until you switch back to caster form. If you were never in a bear for before, you are just plain naked. But if you previously took your time to shapeshift into bear (while not in combat) and wear the set you like for tanking, that's what you'll be wearing in bear form.

This should not affect weapons, as you can change them yourself, if you want to.

The main pros and cons are the following:
1) + We are saving a lot of space in our inventory, which is currently wasted by the sets of equipment for different roles.
2) + Players are encouraged to play the druid right - that is, know the strengths and weaknesses of different forms and collect different equipment for each form.
2) - If we want to have tier 2 hat in all 4 forms, we would need 4 tier 2 hats =) Of course, it can be implemented in such a way, that if you don't have anything equiped on a certain slot in a certain form, the item from the same slot of your caster form is used.

I think, this is the best way to go, from all points of view. Easier to implement, easier to play, and absolutely balanced.

Can this be unstickied?

It's an insult to druids. Everything here goes against what the developers show they have planned for us.
It's a slap in the face to have this stickied when Blizzard has shown they care nothing of these ideas.

Well, as stated in one of your subsections, you have simply made a erroneous assumption.

Druids cannot and should not be made 100% effective at one role at a time. Why? Imagine you have a character who can change roles and be 100% effective at it whenever he switches to that role? Seems like it's only fair, and it certainly isn't mathematically overpowering to make adapting gear such as you proposed. However, it is unfair to every other non-hybrid class. If a druid could be 100% effective at a different class every time they shift shape, they would make non-hybrids simply redundant. Why roll a warrior when you can roll a druid and be a warrior, priest and a rogue at a press if a button? That is why Blizzard will not consider this suggestion, simply because it is based on a wrong assumption.

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Q u o t e:
Well, as stated in one of your subsections, you have simply made a erroneous assumption.

Druids cannot and should not be made 100% effective at one role at a time. Why? Imagine you have a character who can change roles and be 100% effective at it whenever he switches to that role? Seems like it's only fair, and it certainly isn't mathematically overpowering to make adapting gear such as you proposed. However, it is unfair to every other non-hybrid class. If a druid could be 100% effective at a different class every time they shift shape, they would make non-hybrids simply redundant. Why roll a warrior when you can roll a druid and be a warrior, priest and a rogue at a press if a button? That is why Blizzard will not consider this suggestion, simply because it is based on a wrong assumption.

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Are you even aware of the crap you're spewing out?

If your "assumptions" were true, people who rolled a warrior only want a tank bot and people who roll a rogue only want a dps bot, and don't care at all if their MS, hamstring, Pummel, Kidney Shot, Blind etc were removed from the game.

Also, why the ¤%&!! do people play hunters and warlocks? Why don't they just roll rogue/mage instead?
Maybe your tiny brain can't grasp the concept that everything doesn't have to revolve around the 3 words tanking, dps and healing.

I'm surprised more people haven't replied to this post, pretty much sums the problem most druids express on here. Obviously the class itself is a huge challenge for Blizzard to make balanced. But concidering it's a harder class to play than most, you can understand why people think they should have been a bit more generous with some things.

The difference will be obvious in the arenas. I have not really formed a solid opinion yet, but I don't expect to play much else than WSG.

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Q u o t e:
What if they changed it so that intellect gave a bonus to strength, agility or stamina when shapeshifted so that equipment with let's say +10 int, gave the equivalent of +5 sta in bear form and +5 agi in cat form.

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imo this is the best solution. Much easier to add 1 formula than having to add a load more specific druid drops or having to change the existing hybrid gear. Could be added as a talent or passive spell??