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  • 0. Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   18/10/2007 14:02:30 PDT
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The guide is not updated for WotLK nor 3.0 builds.

Hello and welcome to my guide about arena (and battlegrounds?) talent builds. I'm going to list some arena builds and talk a bit about what’s good and bad about them. If you know any build I've missed, or if you have any comment, tell me.

Before we start, here's some in general useful information:

Molten armor is better than what it might look like, unless you find yourself having to kite melee in every arena, I'd strongly suggest using Molten Armor instead. (More about this on the third post.)

If you get fully purged/dispelled and find yourself getting attacked by melee, rebuff frost armor rank 1. It takes close to no mana while still giving the most valuable effect, reduced movement and melee attack speed. (Thanks Lauran)

Always use rank 1 polymorph instead of the full rank. There’s no difference except mana cost.
Same goes for frost nova. (The extra frost nova damage isn’t worth the mana.)
(Recent rumours states that nova rank 1 gets overidden by Frost bite, if this is true, you'd probably be better off using rank 2.)

When playing with a healer, buff everyone with rank 1 dampen magic (dispel fodder) unless you're quite sure on meeting a non-magic team, in which case you can use full rank amplify magic. (Just remove it if it's another team.).

Bind rank 1 Frostbolt and rank 1 Cone of Cold and learn to use them for kiting. Also, if you're Fire. Bind Blastwave rank 1 (A 200 mana cost, 6 seconds duration undispellable AoE slow is invaluable)and DB rank 1 (Great for DB + poly and interupting.) and use them wisely.


Acronyms used:

Imp CS = Improved Counterspell.
DPM = Damage per Mana.
MSD = Mystical Starfire Diamond. Meta gem which has a 30%? chance to decrease your next spell casting time by 50%. The buff lasts 6 seconds or 1 spell. Has a 45 second hidden cooldown.
NS = Nature's Swiftness. Next spell cast is instant, just like Presence of Mind.
Fakecast = The act of starting a spell and then cancel it midway to make you miss counterspell.
Shattercombo = Casting Frostbolt directly followed by an Ice Lance on a target already standing in frost nova or using Freeze just before they land.
CoC = Cone of Cold.
DPS = Damage per second, overall damage.
MoE = Master of Elements.
CSD = Chaotic Skyfire Diamond. Increase your critical strike rating by 12 and increases the damage on your critical strikes by 3%
DB = Dragon's Breath. Fire 41 point talent.
BS = Blazing Speed. Fire talent which gives you a 10% chance on ranged/melee to dispel any snares on you, and increase your movement speed by 50%, for 8 seconds.
Spec = Talent build.

Pros: Good things about the spec.

Cons: Bad things about the spec.

Overall: The rating I've given the spec, the worst being 1 and the best being 10. Also, some additional comments about the spec.


Fire and Arcane builds.


0/50/11 Maxed fire with Icy Veins.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZEgMzfMcReRtV0Mho


Pros:
Has most fire talents, which gives great damage. Also has DB, which as I said before, is good for multiple reasons. (DB + Sheep being one of them.) (Pray for it to don't crit though ;p.)

Blazing speed gives you great survivability versus melee (particulary rogues) and hunters. However, you're dependant on it proccing. That's the negative part about it... However, when you have a rogue on you, you'll most likely be able to get away almost instantly, due to their fast hitting, and with a bit of luck, he won't be able to catch you. (BS proc on Deadly Throw <3.)
Keep in mind that it only removes snares when it procs, it doesn't prevent getting snared 0.5 sec after, so get away quickly.

The spec grants good damage, which isn't reliant on a pet. (Some teams focuses on the pet, and when they do, it dies.) And with scorch, you'll be able to get some serious damage going quickly, even if you have a pet on you thanks to burning soul. An extra bonus is that a scorch + fireblast combo will most likely down a water elemental, essentially ruining a lot of a frost mage damage.

If you play this spec, you'd be better of using MSD than CSD since you'll be able to do huge damage with a quick fireball + DB + scorch + fireblast. If everything crits, you'll be looking at atleast 7k damage, not counting ignite. (With decent gear, that is.)

Blastwave rank 1 is a great undispellable 6 sec AoE slow.


Cons:
You'll have to use your expensive spells (mana cost wise) very carefully. If you spam DB and Blastwave you'll be out of mana fast.

No imp CS.

DB is quite hard to hit until you've mastered it.

Your survivability isn't all that great, but it's decent. Not as good as frost though. (Dual block/ice barrier.)

As with all builds with Blazing Speed, it's better than frost for kiting melees (specially rogues).


Overall: 5-7/10.
A decent spec for players who'd like to try something else than the normal, boring, frost builds. Although, it's probably not as good as frost specs.

No imp CS is a pain, but with smart use of DB rank 1 you can work around it. (The priest is casting a greater heal close to you and your CS is on CD? Turn around and DB r1.)



17/44/0 Full fire with imp CS. Scorch spec.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0y0obZVgGzfccReRz


Pros:
Dragon's Breath is a very nice second interrupt ability when CS is on cooldown. Remember that the disorient effect isn't broken by DoTs. Also, DB + poly is truly a great combo. (Pray for it not critting though.)

Has Blazing Speed for defence versus melee/hunters.

You'll have high DPS if you're left alone and Blast wave + Dragon's Breath can inflict chaos if they're used when the opposing team is clustered up. Keep your mana in mind, though.

You have Imp CS which, as I explained before, is great.

Scorch has a low mana cost but still does nice damage, which can save you for those "below 300 mana fights".


Cons:
If you're unlucky with Blazing Speed procs, melee will nuke you down rather fast. Still, when it does proc, you'll be a superior kiter.

Seeing as you won't be using frostbolt as a main nuke, many times your target won't be slowed, which of course is a con.

Your DPS is dependant on not getting interupted all the time. Without Water Elemental you won't have any passive DPS and you'll be a lot more gimped if you have to keep moving.


Overall: 6-7/10.
It's a very fun spec to play, and now that we have trainable Ice Block, it is a viable spec. I'm playing it atm in my 3v3, and it's working out great. The survivability is pretty random, but I'd almost be inclined to say that it's better survivability versus melee than frost. (If Blazing Speed procs, that is.)


34/27/0 AP-POM-Pyro build with BS.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0E0RbdbGzbZVgRzf0cRo


Pros:
Unrivalled burst damage. A well placed POM Pyro wins the game, especially if it crits. You'll need to time it well, though.

With imp Blink and 2 points in AM, you'll have some extra mana, and spend much less when blinking. Thus, it'll take some time before you go oom.

You'll have both BS and impact, giving you decent survivability.

Has imp CS.


Cons:
If your pyro somehow gets avoided (Resist, Ice Block, Bubble or even Spell Reflect) it'll often make a difference, and not a good one. Also, if you time it wrong, (just before that NS heal hits) it'll get completely neglected.

You'll have less survivability than frost and fire mages. (No second IB, No DB.)

The sustained damage you do, while AP is not on, is less than that of a pure fire mage or frost mage.

The chance of Pyro critting is pretty slim. Although, if you can (far from always possible) try to cast the pyro on a clearcast, that way you'll have at the least a 38% critchance (depending on gear) on it, against a player with 450 resilience.


Overall: 6-7/10
It can be just as good as a pure fire build, if you can handle timing the burst. However, it still falls short when compared to frost. A viable and fun spec nonetheless.


Frost builds.


0/7/54. Full frost with Impact & Flame Throwing.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZVMZVVGIofxswqt


Pros:
Got all valuable talents in frost.

High burst damage with a shatter combo.

Better DPM than many other builds.

You'll have Impact, which can proc on every hit enemies do to you when you have Molten Armor on. Can also proc on Fireblast obviously.

Longer range on Fireblast, which can help.


Cons:
No Imp CS. This is the major downside, imp CS is great. Even though you have to more or less waste 5 talent points in filler talents to get it. It's good versus mages to hold them in nova. Druids doesn't need casting time heals to keep someone up, therefore you won't be able to silence them in critical situations (except the ones trying to cyclone you when their warrior is on 10%.). Also, silencing a shaman just before that NS heal can win the game.

No Clearcasting. This is about 10% increase in mana cost of all spells. (In comparison to specs with it.) However, seeing as you have Frost Channeling, it evens out.


Overall: 8-9/10. You have a lot of damage at the sacrifice of control. The lack of imp CS makes you depend a lot on your skill on not falling for fakecasts or missing CS.

It's very good 5v5 spec and in most cases it's the best 5v5 spec. In 3v3 it's on par with 17/0/44. Worse for duelling, though.
(When playing in a 4 dps team, imp CS might be better, depends entirely on your setup and the setup you're facing.)

A very popular choice is also to go 0/5/56 instead. (Full Winter's Chill and 1 in Imp Blizzard or Elemental Precision; http://www.wowhead.co

[ Post edited by Shaan ]


Some classes kill melee.
Some classes kill casters/ranged.
Warlocks kill indiscriminately.
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  • Doomhammer
  • 3. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   19/10/2007 06:41:57 PDT
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Nice guide for beginners at Arena :)

Thumps up.
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  • Stormscale
  • 4. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   19/10/2007 06:48:30 PDT
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You're late! :P
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  • Doomhammer
  • 5. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   19/10/2007 07:10:53 PDT
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Okay i have some questions, im completly new to frost (playing it on PTR atm)

What is the reason to have Improved Arcane missiles? if you dont have Mystical skyfire diamond?

For 2vs2 and 3vs3 would a full frost spec be better ?

Without Frost Channeling how is the mana situation ?

Should i get Veterans or Dreadweave pvp set ?

What is the name of that addon that shows the icon in the middle of the screen when its off CD?

That was it for now . :)
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  • 9. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   20/10/2007 09:55:26 PDT
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Stick this in the informative thingies please >:

*reports for sticky-type*

Roses are red, Violets are Blue, Fire is nerfed, and Frost will be too!
-Flight.
PROFUZZINAL TROOL!!!
Milenchois Level 70 Troll Mage
Renkyl Level 70 Blood Elf Warlock
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  • 10. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   20/10/2007 10:15:14 PDT
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Arcane and fire missing.

Thinking endangers your contentment
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  • Sylvanas
  • 12. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   20/10/2007 21:33:14 PDT
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Q u o t e:
Hello and welcome to my guide about arena talent builds. I'm going to list some of the arena builds and talk a bit about what’s good and bad about them. If you have any other build I’ve missed, please reply and tell me about it. Comments are appreciated of course.


Tip: In almost all arenas and as almost all specs, use Molten Armor. It's better.
Always use rank 1 polymorph instead of the full rank. There’s no difference except mana cost.
Same goes for frost nova. (The extra frost nova damage isn’t worth the mana.)

Acronyms used:

Imp CS = Improved Counterspell.
DPM = Damage per Mana.
MSD = Mystical Starfire Diamond. Meta gem which has a 5% chance to decrease your next spells casting time by 50%. The buff lasts 10 seconds or 1 spell.
NS = Nature's Swiftness. Next spell cast is instant, just like Presence of Mind.
Fakecast = The act of starting a spell and then cancel it midway to make you miss counterspell.
Shattercombo = Casting Frostbolt directly followed by an Ice Lance on a target already standing in frost nova or using Freeze just before they land.
CoC = Cone of Cold.
DPS = Damage per second, overall damage.
MoE = Master of Elements.

Now that you know that, lets start, shall we?


0/7/54. Full frost with Impact & Flame Throwing.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZVMZVVGIofxswqt

Pros:
Got all damage increasing talents in frost.

High burst damage with Shattercombo.

Better DPM than many other builds.

Impact, which can proc on every hit enemies do to you when you have Molten Armor activated. Can also proc on Fireblast obviously.

Longer range on Fireblast, which can decide a match if you have some luck with impact while chasing someone.
It can also be used to put warriors in combat, denying a charge.

Cons:
No Imp CS. This is the major downside, imp CS is great. Even though you have to more or less waste 5 talent points in filler talents to get it. It's great versus mages to hold them in nova. Druids doesn't need casting time heals to keep someone up, therefore you won't be able to silence them in critical situations. Also, silencing a shaman just before that NS heal can win the game.

No Clearcasting or Imp AM. This reduces the value of MSD's synergy with AM greatly. (Clearcasted AM with MSD proc is frightening DPS, for no mana.) And obviously reduces your mana efficiency.

Overall: 8/10. You have a lot of damage at the sacrifice of control. The lack of imp CS makes you depend a lot on your skill on not falling for fakecasts or missing CS. It’s also great for controlling melee.






17/44/0 Full fire with imp CS.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=o0xy0obZVgGzfccReRz

Pros:
Dragon's Breath is a very nice second interrupt ability when CS is on cooldown. Remember that the disorient effect isn't broken by DoTs, so it's great with Warlocks.

Blazing speed gives you decent survivability versus melee and hunters. However, you're dependant on it proccing. In most cases it'll proc almost instantly against rogues, but when it doesn't proc you're out for a hard time. Also, remember that it only removes snares when it procs, it doesn't prevent getting snared 0.5 sec after it procs.

You'll have high DPS if you're left alone and Blast wave + Dragon's Breath can inflict chaos if they're used when the opposing team is clustered up. Keep your mana in mind, though.

You have Imp CS, which as I explained before is great.

Scorch has a low mana cost but still does nice damage, which can save you in those "below 300 mana fights".

Cons:
If you're unlucky with Blazing Speed procs, melee will nuke you down in seconds. You have very low survivability against casters, and no panic button such as Ice Block.

Seeing as you won't be using frostbolt as a main nuke, many times your target won't be slowed, which is rather dangerous.

Your DPS is dependant on you not having a melee on you. Without Water Elemental you won't have any passive DPS and you'll be a lot more gimped when you have to keep moving.

Having both Molten Armor and Ignite might conflict with the sheeping of melee due to Molten Armor crits proccing ignite on the melee hitting on you.


Overall: 5.5/10. It's a very fun spec, sadly enough no Ice Block or Ice Barrier will make your survivability too low and you’ll find yourself nuked down far too fast for your own liking in arenas. It's great in battlegrounds though, thanks to the low cooldown dependency.




0/38/23 Radikals Ballerâ„¢ Spec. (Scorch spamming.)

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZVgMzf0sReRZfVMbobxo

Pros:
Good survivability thanks to Blazing Speed and Ice Block.

Nice damage.

It has Impact, which boosts Molten Armor etc.

Thanks to Shatter you’ll be able to get a lot of crits.

Melee WILL hate you.

You’ll be Baller.


Cons:
No mana efficiency talents. (MoE & Clearcasting.)

No passive damage.

Having both Molten Armor and Ignite might conflict with the sheeping of melee due to Molten Armor crits proccing ignite on the melee hitting on you.

Not quite as good burst damage as the frost builds.

No Imp CS or Dragon’s Breath.

Overall: 7/10. Pretty fun spec and definitely out of the ordinary, not quite as good as the other frost specs for arena play, but viable nonetheless!
Besides, elemental builds are cool.






34/0/27 Maximum burst damage build.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=o0xE0RbzLIzbZZVVMIobxo

Pros:
High on demand burst damage. (AP + PoM + Frostbolt on a target in frost nova.)

Imp Counterspell.

It has more mana than other specs.


Decent survivability thanks to Ice Block.

Cons:
You’re very reliant on critting. Due to resilience this is kind of bad.

AP is dispellable. A shaman/priest who purges your AP is quite annoying.

You’re relying on your cooldowns to deal a lot of damage.

No impact weakens Molten Armor.

You have no passive damage, A ka Water Elemental.

Overall: 7/10. This talent build was very good in season one, when the level of resilience on everyone was low. Nowadays against 400+ resilience targets it’s not as good anymore. You’re still kind of a one-trick pony. (Not as much as PoM pyro though.) Although you'll do high amounts of damage if you're allowed to chain cast frostbolts.



OMIGAWD! :p
Are you trying to say tat my 33/28/0 spec is no good ;) in arena? :p
I are shocked.

Anyways list up some ideas to team m8s for each spec :))

"Heaven for the climate. Hell for the company."
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  • 13. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   21/10/2007 05:06:37 PDT
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Nice guide Shaan! Thank you.

But what do you think about elementalist spec with ice barrier aka 0/30/31? (check my armory...)

I know this build is real "mana glutton" but still, It's applicable in arena (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) in your opinion?
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  • Kor'gall
  • 14. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   21/10/2007 07:27:45 PDT
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if you fight a lot of frosties I would recommend the 0/38/23 build, it's really good if you know how to use it. I have to admit it's not as good as a frostbuild vs locks and rogues but most of the time it's good enough, and imo it's way more fun.
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  • Kazzak
  • 15. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   31/10/2007 05:00:38 PDT
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Nice guide :-)
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  • Ravencrest
  • 16. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   31/10/2007 16:44:37 PDT
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Very nice guide I must say. Many things I didnt even thought about before reading some of this.

so anyway, when I play my mage, I have problems sometimes against other mages..no particular reason, any golden tip you have when duelling other s2 mages? I know that getting out of nova dirr is important but, is there like a golden rule mage vs mage? thx for answer, and nice guide:D
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  • Burning Legion
  • 17. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   31/10/2007 17:43:32 PDT
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very nice guide! reported for sticky :)

Improved frostbolt is in 2v2 only usefull in those encounters where you do not get targeted as first or when you and your partner both survive. And since the mage almost always gets nuked first in 2v2 I dont get the oppurtunity to cast alot of frostbolts. Couldn't really comment on 5v5 or 3v3, too inexperienced there. (Well also only experience in mediocre 2v2 ^^)

" Show me someone without an ego, and I'll show you a loser"

Donald Trump (1946- )
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  • The Venture Co
  • 19. Re: Shaan's Guide to Arena Talent Builds.   31/10/2007 20:59:12 PDT
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you're also missing Evertras spec in his "I suck at PvP" movie, 0/12/49
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=oZVMh0bZVVGIobxsVqp

and my little variation to it, 5/12/44
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=o0xZVMh0bZVVGGobxsVqz

I got imp Arcane Missiles over Empowered frostbolt. I find really useful, when i have the mana for it, to go for AM rather then scorch to be able to do some heavy damage on a fast attacking opponent. Very situational, but useful indeed.

Bear in mind that you won't last long, no clearcast, no reduced mana costs. So it is not really suitable for longer fights such as a 5v5 match could be. But i find it pretty valuable in 2v2 matches, and playing with a MS warrior just makes it easier.

[ Post edited by Savate ]

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