---

Q u o t e:
You can log on to different WoW accounts at the same time when they are merged into the same Battle.net account.

---

and a question from me:
IS it possible to merge 2 BATTLE.net account ? AND still play together ?

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Q u o t e:
You can log on to different WoW accounts at the same time when they are merged into the same Battle.net account.

---

From the first post, you can't. It clearly says "you will have single login to all your games". It is rather clear for me that single login allow only one person to access given service in given time.
NCsoft on the contrary demand separate logins for the same service in order to access it simultaneously. Even more, they seriously encourage people to use game login name separate from master account name.
Guess, why? Isn't that obvious? It's just more secure.

---

Q u o t e:

and a question from me:
IS it possible to merge 2 BATTLE.net account ? AND still play together ?

---

I've read (on this forum, or on other one) that it is a big trouble, up to the level of inability to login with a second game account, if first one is not paid. (First and Second is the order of the accounts in Blizzard database)

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Q u o t e:
I have been playing and reflecting all the time on just what I will be doing after November 12th. Trust me I love this game but I feel I am being held by gunpoint to sign up to something I just don`t want to do. That message on the announcement log in screen pretty well sums up for me just how I get treated by Blizzard in this game. Snowflake yes... Paying subscriber yes... Willing participant ... Not without some level of comfort as to what the hell this is all about.

---

I don't know what more to tell you if you can't see it. They are getting rid of the old login system, which has served its use for five years, because it can't provide (among other things) the functionality required for their new services. Since maintaining two login system side to side is a waste of ressources (personnel to actually keep it running, money to pay for the servers), they are getting rid of the old one. Out with the old, in with the new. Every time there's an update, you are also held at gunpoint about upgrading your client, yet do you complain about it?

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Q u o t e:
You seem to be hung up on this agreement issue. Blizzard had no problem emailing me about Burning Crusade and Lich King tempting me to buy. It says nothing on the Wrath box about a Battle Net Account. So after years of levelling and getting through Outland and buying the games you think I wasn`t going to agree to the terms of the service. Dream on. What game have you been playing.

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They didn't email me about TBC/Wotlk, other than to give me a beta key for which I had registered for before. Maybe they did email you to make you buy, and this time, it's free.
Concerning the second half, of course you could stop agreeing and leave, just like you are able to if you still don't want bnet on the 12th. You are paying for entertainment, just like one pays for entertainment in a theater or a theme park. In the end, you have memories, friends, and hopefully had a good time. If you don't like a movie or get bored in a theme park, you walk out. If you don't like the way the agreement works, same thing, you walk out, with your memories, the good and the bad times.

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Q u o t e:
I wanna play not subscribe to some online tracking system just to sell products. You really think this has been designed and created for our benefit. Goodness me.

---

Yes and no. Obviously, they're doing it because it will make their whole business more profitable. Blizzard's not a charity after all. But they're doing this new system also because it gives us, customers, access to more than the old system could do. I for one can't wait for cross-game(/faction/realm) chat, because there are some people I am friends of that play the other faction, and to contact them, I have to log out and switch characters, which means I can't talk to my guild or play. New system allows me to contact that friend without breaking from my game or alt-tabbing to msn.

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Q u o t e:
I never ever do anything without giving it serious thought. Irrespective of your misplaced understanding of what an agreement actually is, I haven`t signed up for anything yet and I have a month to think this one through. I will watch with interest over the next month how the discussions progress. I doubt that any snowflake that has done the do, like yourself is going to argue any other way. I for one will continue to be pessimistic in favour of no change until I can play no more... And then I will see.

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No matter how much you gesture and posture, you agreed they can change the access conditions, the price, etc... and your complaining can't stop them from doing so. The counterpart is that you are free to not accept the changes and leave. You do have a month yo think it through, but it boils down to "Do I want to keep playing WoW enough that i'll agree to the new terms?" If not, get ready to cancel payment, if yes, might aswell go ahead soon before everyone rushes at the last moment.

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Q u o t e:
You never know I may just get my email from Blizzard setting out their new terms before end game. Lets hope anyway. I can probably time this Rogue just right to Level on 80 for 11th Nov . Having done so it would be sad to confine this plus my other six Level 80s to the dustbin. But then thats the risk of being a snowflake. Never mind.

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That's the price of entertainment.

---

Q u o t e:
and a question from me:
IS it possible to merge 2 BATTLE.net account ? AND still play together ?

---

You don't merge battle.net accounts together, you merge wow accounts into battle.net accounts. One WoW account can only be merged into one battle.net account, but you can merge as many wow accounts in the same battle.net account as you want.

---

Q u o t e:

From the first post, you can't. It clearly says "you will have single login to all your games". It is rather clear for me that single login allow only one person to access given service in given time.

---

When you have two accounts attached to your battle.net login, you enter email and password, then the game asks you to choose which wow account to log on in. Afterwards, it preselects the last used account for convenience. If you open a second client, and log in, it will ask you on what wow account you want to play, then you select the other, and log in. Tada, you're dualboxing.

---

Q u o t e:

I've read (on this forum, or on other one) that it is a big trouble, up to the level of inability to login with a second game account, if first one is not paid. (First and Second is the order of the accounts in Blizzard database)

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You read wrong. I have two wow accounts on my battle.net account, one active and one inactive, and I can play fine. My wife has two wow accounts active on her battle.net account, and she can log on both at the same time to dual box.


Edit: sigh. I forgot to post a bit. >.>

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Q u o t e:
Blizzard are not doing a very good job at advertising this, at the very least I would expect them to email me and tell me of this change, instead of letting me find out myself how to do it and where to go , I pay them enough per month to expect to be informed of changes to a contract i`ve entered into them.

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Yeah, maybe comercially it would be better if they emailed every account holder. The fact you are posting here shows that, while not it wasn't the best PR way to do it, you are in fact well aware of the changes and that it was enough. Reread the Eula/tou, they never promised to email about changes.

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Q u o t e:
I`m not sure the Battle.net account is more secure is anything its less secure, the user name becomes an email, emails generally are much more widely available. no one but me currently knows what user name i use for my Wow Accounts, where as a large number of people know my emails. so it seems i`ll have to create an email just to use for battlenet and never give it to anyone else to maintain that level of security. further more as battle.net now includes all accounts, if someone does now hack into your battle.net account you loose everything on there.

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It's just as secure as you let it be. Use a private email no one knows about, and it's the same as a username. Some people use the same username (and sometimes even passwords) across forums/accounts/stores/..., seems you're sensible and not doing it. Keeping a secondary email for bnet isn't very hard, and will be just as known as a username

---

Q u o t e:
the terms and conditions for having one again seem to give Blizzard pretty much every right you can think of, suprised they don`t make a clause making you agree to Blizzard coming round your house and you giving them a key so they can come in when they want. However you either agree to all these terms or don`t play there game, and in most cases 90% of what they say they can do they won`t do to most people. i.e they won`t be all sat reading everyones private chat just for laughs. and in any case its not much less than what you agree to when you sign up to email accounts or ISP`s.

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Most of what they ask you to agree with is stuff they already can do, only now extended to take into account the new features they'll have to manage. The second half of your paragraph summarizes well the situation.


Now about that "next thing we'll know, they'll ask for the right to enter our house" and the likes:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

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Q u o t e:


Why you try to collect personal informations from the players?

Who is asking from Blizzard to monitoring clients even if they are not in the game?

The eu.battle.net is asking our singnature to spy our PC/LP!!

Good Game blizzard.

Don tell me that is a missunderstanding becouse your cookie ...and the rest was full checked and deleted.

Now the real story please.

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http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/termsofuse.html
http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/privacy.html

- To market products tailored to you. When you shop on amazon, they do it too.

- Show me where it says you are monitored while not using Blizzard's services.

- Your WoW client can already scan parts of your PC, and you agreed to it. Nothing new under the sun.

- I don't understand what you're saying.

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Q u o t e:


I love these forums and the way the word troll is used to undermine argument to make the reponder look important. Doesn't work with me so I just ignore that bit... Merge and attach and create are all different words with different meaning. What in essence I am doing is signing up for a Battle Net Account and that is now a requirement to play the game game. Without reading these forums how would the uninformed player know of the change until the very moment they tried to log in on the dreaded day. The various notifications and agreements state that at sometime in the future this may happen, so why not simply notify all players of the change required with the date and the full and detailed reasons and terms for the Battle Net Account. That way when faced with that decision they can make an informed 'decision'. Until such a time as when I have to make that decision I choose not to have a Battle Net Account.

---

If you choose to ignore the news/warnings when you pop up your launcher, it's your fault. If you choose to ignore the news inside the game, at login, it's your fault. Not sure if they mentioned it in the login, but they surely will when the time comes.

About warning you: a LOT of people here don't even check their e-mails. Just because you do, does not mean the rest does. Blizzard gives their news through the launcher and login, which are the surest ways to reach the client. Surest then an e-mail, anyways.

Besides, an informed decision depends on you and your ability to research a topic. Rule #1 when being 'informed': read it from all angles, not only Blizzards side. So, if you wanted to be informed, you'd have gone and researched for yourself. That's being informed. Listening to something and agreeing immediately is being a sheep.

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Q u o t e:

I did not agree ever to sign up to a Battle Net Account, I simply concurred that Blizzard in the future may/will change the terms of the agreement to require as such. I understand fully that they can do that. But until such a time that I am forced to sign up to a different form of account to that which I originally undertook I continue to enjoy the game without a Battle Net Account.

---

At the minimum, you agreed that the terms may change, as you said. So, why even mention it? You agreed that what is required to play the game changes with every patch/expansion, and Blizzard are free to change everything. You really have no argument here. You agreed with change, thus you have no option but either accept it, or refuse and stop playing/paying.

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Q u o t e:

Why do I have to give a valid reason for needing to change something that works absolutely without problem at this time. I simply log on and play the game. Log on play the game. Log on play the game. What other advantages do I need. Repeat... Log on play the game. Takes a moment to do. What on earth do I need a Battle Net account for. Unless that is that Blizzard can explain in their formal notification to me what wonderful benefits I will enjoy. I am only interested in playing WOW and I believe that I should be given the choice whether to partake or not. If not then that is Blizzards choice though after my years of custom the least I could have expected was a private mail explaining just why they were changing the account. Otherwise we are all no more than sheep in Blizzards eyes.

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If you do not need to give a reason for not changing, why does Blizzard have to give a reason to change? At least say you're lazy. It's a bloody login! Everything remains the same! Why the drama?
You already agreed that Blizzard may change the terms without prior notice, so really, why are you complaining?!
You click a couple of buttons, create an account, merge, go back to playing. Get a penguin to boot. Then, you login and play. Login and play. Repeat.... login and play. Lets go again: login and play. Takes a moment to do. Same as before.

As far as advantages: do some research instead of wasting time complaining before knowing. I thought you weren't a sheep? All I see is you saw some people complaining of b.net, and came here to do the same, without really knowing what is going on. Besides, you already agreed that Blizzard may change the terms and conditions. You really are without options here. Either join, or leave.

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Q u o t e:

Rubbish. You know nothing about contract. If any terms change then they need your agreement. I do wish you luck with contracts if that's how you view them. This needs all to sign up to the new terms to play or you don't play.

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The terms are always changing. And you are always agreeing to the new ones! Every single patch/expansion. It really is that simple. Whenever you install a new patch, you have to, once again, agree to the new terms.

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Q u o t e:

What is the difference. I only need to log into the game to play. A closed door is a closed door which ever way you want to look at it. Blizzard are dictating that to enter through the door you need a Battle Net Account. However, without my agreement there is no contract. My loss is I won`t play WOW. Blizzards loss is my custom. I cannot believe that Blizzard do not view this change as so significant as to warrant an email notification to all players of the change, setting out the reasons why and requesting ' REQUESTING ' that players maintain their loyalty to the game and sign up.

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You will still only need to login to play the game. Jesus, what the bloody hell is your problem? Blizzard already dictated previously that, to enter the door, you needed a WoW account. Why didn't you complain then? Seriously, have you even given any THOUGHT to what you are acomplaining about? You're complaining about having to complete a simple procedure of, basically, making a new login. And then, all remains the same. Difference being you'll have access to new services eventually, made possible by using a b.net account. If you don't want to use the services....you just play wow... login and play wow. login and play...

Blizzard have already REQUESTED that you change. Months or maybe a year ago, not even sure. coming next month, it is mandatory. Period. it is also mandatory, right now, that you have a wow account to play. same thing.

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Q u o t e:

Amazing how customer satisfaction just seems to fall on deaf ears whenever folk moan and whine on this forum. This game is very enjoyable and a treasure to many, and for some they feel almost powerless to argue with Blizzard over some of the bad customer service we get. Many view that with such a large player base a single player has no voice. One day Blizzard may wish they had given more time to the single player and kept them better informed. It really isn`t too much to ask is it... A formal notification of a significant change to a players account.

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Again, what is formal? Most users do not read their e-mails. As far as I see it, the most formal notification you can give, is at the wow launcher and login. Just scan the forums. Some people even claim they only have an e-mail because some sites/games require an e-mail. Period! An e-mail is NOT a formal notification. A news on the forum, a news on the site, a news on the wow, is the much better, most easily guaranteed way, of requesting that people merge their account. They even gave you a LOT of time to do it.

You're just complaining because you're lazy or you're nothing but a sheep that heard someone else saying b.net was evil!!!11one

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Q u o t e:

Sadly though I am not given the choice, when all I want to do is log on and play. That means nothing to me sorry.

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You're not given a choice now. Again, you need a wow account to login. You went to the trouble of creating one back when you bought wow. You also accepted the agreement. There is no difference now. Show me the difference between then and now, at least.


In the end, I highly doubt Blizzard will lose many people over this. A couple hundred at most. The forums are used mainly to whine, since the satisfied customers are enjoying playing the game.
Not only that, but a lot of people that whine of the b.net are immediately answered with other people saying: 'you're just lazy'. If you are a dedicated forum fan, you'll know that when there REALLY is something wrong, a lot more whine and less refutal takes place. This is minor, and you really oughta take a breath, take it into perspective and think: 'what is different from now and when I first created a wow account?' - 'I created an account, to play wow, and I agree to the same terms (generally speaking) that I agreed to before.' Isn't it the same now?

If you were a new customer, a year from now, you'd end up with only one option: create a wow account through b.net. Would it be different then, than it was when you created the wow account.

I, for one, am glad. This only means they are still evolving, trying to provide a better service to the community. In the end, you can't please them all, but you sure as hell can try to please most of them, which seems to be the case. If you ran a business, you'd know that for a fact. It's impossible to please them all, so keep most, and keep the best. In the end, one needs the bread on the table, even when doing great games...

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Q u o t e:

From the first post, you can't. It clearly says "you will have single login to all your games". It is rather clear for me that single login allow only one person to access given service in given time.
NCsoft on the contrary demand separate logins for the same service in order to access it simultaneously. Even more, they seriously encourage people to use game login name separate from master account name.
Guess, why? Isn't that obvious? It's just more secure.

---

No, it is not. It is exactly the same. Finding an account name is just as easy as finding a password: you only need a keyloger. Not to mention the account name always passes in the clear on the internet, only the password is ciphered, so an attacker can always know your username easily. Just by logging in on your University, cafe, home network, anyone on the network can simply sniff out your username.

Please, stop posting about what you don't know. If NCSoft says it is more secure, then I would fear for your account, because someone responsible for handling your security, not knowing anything about security, is scary as hell :/

well i tried to create the battlenet account but whn i got to the first(i knw) step and selected my country
nothing happens...
how cn i fix this??

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Q u o t e:


As far as advantages: do some research instead of wasting time complaining before knowing. I thought you weren't a sheep? All I see is you saw some people complaining of b.net, and came here to do the same, without really knowing what is going on. Besides, you already agreed that Blizzard may change the terms and conditions. You really are without options here. Either join, or leave.

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Goodness me.. So many assumptions. It is not for me as a customer to research just why a supplier is changing their mode of operation or service. It is not for me to be troubled by wasting one second of my time researching and checking why a supplier changes their modes of operation. If I ran this business in the same way Blizzard do I would have no client base what so ever. All clients are perfectly entitled to receive full notification and details on why their current arrangement is being terminated. This is not a merge it is a termination of service and the provision of another with terms and conditions. The supplier expects me the customer to transfer the good will and payments without formally notifying me of the change..,. Sorry. I repeat. This is not about moaning on a web forum this is about a contract change posted on this forum by Blizzard. Sadly.. Not good enough, and won't be good enough until I get a more formal detailed response from Blizzard setting out in detail just what it is that I am now signing up to and paying for.

On that loss of custom... I run a group mail forum and I have hundreds of subscribers. Trouble is when I check the management for bounced mail and those not receiving email posts the actual list of active users reduces substantially. One issue this whole process will expose is just how many folk are actually active playing WOW. Cus they will only be the ones with a Battle Net Account [ and walking round with a Penguin ]. The risk is that this will be wake up call for those too lazy to dump their accounts at this time while inactive, given that the change may make them not bother swapping over , and so cancel. And all this because Blizzard fail to notify formally in the correct procedure. And I don`t buy that folk do not read their email. At least then Blizzard have done all that is 'reasonable' under law.

Sorry, but Blizzard need to demonstrate to me just what the changes involve before I sign up to anything involving the parting of cash and user/customer information. The latter is of more value to me than just another computer game, and I dare say those mulling over these changes at the moment are more worried about the release of personal data than anything else.

With the discussions about chat monitoring and the use of personal information in the Battle.net Terms & Conditions I haven't seen any one ask this question yet...

The information will be viewed by Blizzard and their "Affiliates". Has anyone been able to find out who these affiliates are?

If we are to sign a legal document surely it's generally an idea to know who we are signing rights to.

And btw Blizz -

I don't play other Blizz games.
I don't want to play other Blizz games.
I can talk to my friends perfectly well atm without Battle.net.
I don't shop at the Blizzard store.
I will never shop at the Blizzard store.

And other posters -

"OMG you're afraid of change" and "you agreed to this installing WotLK!" aren't valid answers. Sensible answers only please.

Just do it or stop playing and stop whining. Yes this is a troll post.

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Q u o t e:


Goodness me.. So many assumptions. It is not for me as a customer to research just why a supplier is changing their mode of operation or service. It is not for me to be troubled by wasting one second of my time researching and checking why a supplier changes their modes of operation. If I ran this business in the same way Blizzard do I would have no client base what so ever. All clients are perfectly entitled to receive full notification and details on why their current arrangement is being terminated. This is not a merge it is a termination of service and the provision of another with terms and conditions. The supplier expects me the customer to transfer the good will and payments without formally notifying me of the change..,. Sorry. I repeat. This is not about moaning on a web forum this is about a contract change posted on this forum by Blizzard. Sadly.. Not good enough, and won't be good enough until I get a more formal detailed response from Blizzard setting out in detail just what it is that I am now signing up to and paying for.

On that loss of custom... I run a group mail forum and I have hundreds of subscribers. Trouble is when I check the management for bounced mail and those not receiving email posts the actual list of active users reduces substantially. One issue this whole process will expose is just how many folk are actually active playing WOW. Cus they will only be the ones with a Battle Net Account [ and walking round with a Penguin ]. The risk is that this will be wake up call for those too lazy to dump their accounts at this time while inactive, given that the change may make them not bother swapping over , and so cancel. And all this because Blizzard fail to notify formally in the correct procedure. And I don`t buy that folk do not read their email. At least then Blizzard have done all that is 'reasonable' under law.

Sorry, but Blizzard need to demonstrate to me just what the changes involve before I sign up to anything involving the parting of cash and user/customer information. The latter is of more value to me than just another computer game, and I dare say those mulling over these changes at the moment are more worried about the release of personal data than anything else.

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Once again, not only do you read part of what people write, but you also fail at logic.
First, I said: IF you wanna be 'well informed', then you research. Otherwise, you can simply read what blizzard writes. And they have written about the system several months before.
Second, your business has nothing to do with Blizzard's business. Simply no way to compare. If I could provide my costumers with a better service, both for me and them, specially if that meant players would keep around longer, plus get even more players, I'd do it without thinking twice, even if I lost a couple clients.
Third, Blizzard is obligated to nothing. You have all the info available. What, you want a spokesperson to come talk with you? hold your hand? Seriously, you have all the information available at BLIZZARD's sites. Just bloody read it!

Fourth: what the heck? resonable under law? Your opinion is NOT the law my dear poster. They are under NO obligation whatsoever to send you an e-mail. You yourself have commented that you have a service and lots of your customers don't use the e-mail. Do you even think before posting?

Fifth: The release of personal data? It's the same agreement as before! They already log everything! There's nothing different there! Only now do you worry? Or is it that someone said so, and now you, like a sheep, believe b.net is the cause of all evil? Loging already occurs on wow! Probably since beta and alpha versions!

Finally, I think it's easier to look at the list of paying subscribers to know how many users are playing wow...lol. That oughta give more straightforward results!

Anyways, I'm done here, rant all you want, I honestly hope you leave! Less whining on the forums, and more constructive posts to improve the game the rest of the people love. All your concerns are completely invalid: all your worries, if real, were supposed to have risen when you first registered. There is no difference whatsoever between b.net and a wow account as far as 'how things are processed' goes. Oh, no, wait, they will be releasing new services, with b.net! so you win! duh!

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Q u o t e:


The information ALREADY IS viewed by Blizzard and their "Affiliates". Has anyone been able to find out who these affiliates are?

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*fixed*

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Q u o t e:


Goodness me.. So many assumptions. It is not for me as a customer to research just why a supplier is changing their mode of operation or service. It is not for me to be troubled by wasting one second of my time researching and checking why a supplier changes their modes of operation.

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They already informed you why they are reuiring the conversion of accounts from wow-only to bnet. If you really want to know more, it's up to you, really, and there's some of it in my previous posts.

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Q u o t e:
If I ran this business in the same way Blizzard do I would have no client base what so ever. All clients are perfectly entitled to receive full notification and details on why their current arrangement is being terminated.

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It's the exact same thing as every time the server is updated and requires a client update. Not to mention you have received notification already, it's on the login screen. And in the ToU you agreed on after each patch since April 14th, too:

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Q u o t e:
I. Accessing the Service

1. To access the Service, you will be required to establish a user account on the Service. This may be either an account for the Service only (the "WoW Account") or an account on Blizzard's centralized account system for various online games (the "Battle.net Account"). If you do not already have a Battle.net Account that may be extended to WoW, Blizzard may require you to open such Battle.net Account; if you already have a WoW Account the Battle.net Account will then replace the WoW Account (note that a "WoW Account," and a "Battle.net Account," are collectively referred to herein as an "Account"). When creating the Battle.net Account, you may be required to accept new terms of use in addition to these Terms of Use. You may have to provide Blizzard with certain personal information (which will be used in accordance with the Blizzard Privacy Policy at http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/privacy.html. Such opening of a Battle.net Account will not incur any additional costs.

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So, yeah, you knew it was coming, eventually. Now you know when.

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Q u o t e:
This is not a merge it is a termination of service and the provision of another with terms and conditions. The supplier expects me the customer to transfer the good will and payments without formally notifying me of the change..,.

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They have notified you.

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Q u o t e:
Sorry. I repeat. This is not about moaning on a web forum this is about a contract change posted on this forum by Blizzard. Sadly.. Not good enough, and won't be good enough until I get a more formal detailed response from Blizzard setting out in detail just what it is that I am now signing up to and paying for.

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It's more than enough. Just the ingame notice would be enough, in fact, because then every active player sees it, and people who stopped playing don't need to worry about it.

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Q u o t e:
On that loss of custom... I run a group mail forum and I have hundreds of subscribers. Trouble is when I check the management for bounced mail and those not receiving email posts the actual list of active users reduces substantially. One issue this whole process will expose is just how many folk are actually active playing WOW.

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They know, at any given time, exactly how many accounts are paid for, and how many of these paid accounts are currently connecting to the servers. they can look at the stats after a month/day/whatever and see exactly how many paid accounts haven't connected, if they so wish. They control the game servers, remember? So why use emails (which can fail to get delivered for various reasons) to guesstimate what they already know precisely?

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Q u o t e:
Cus they will only be the ones with a Battle Net Account [ and walking round with a Penguin ]. The risk is that this will be wake up call for those too lazy to dump their accounts at this time while inactive, given that the change may make them not bother swapping over , and so cancel. And all this because Blizzard fail to notify formally in the correct procedure. And I don`t buy that folk do not read their email. At least then Blizzard have done all that is 'reasonable' under law.

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If people are too "lazy" to cancel the payment for a game they are not playing, it's their own bloody fault. If you subscribe to a newspaper that you let pile in the mailbox, the newspaper company has no obligation to remind you that you are wasting money. Same for WoW.

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Q u o t e:
Sorry, but Blizzard need to demonstrate to me just what the changes involve before I sign up to anything involving the parting of cash and user/customer information. The latter is of more value to me than just another computer game, and I dare say those mulling over these changes at the moment are more worried about the release of personal data than anything else.

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Yeah, it's not like they have put a general FAQ page about battle.net here: https://eu.battle.net/faq/index.html nor the bnet terms of use here: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/termsofuse.html nor the full privacy policy here: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/privacy.html

If only you could read all the legal documents, then you could stop making a mountain out of a molehill. Why doesn't Blizzard disclose that information?

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Q u o t e:


They already informed you why they are reuiring the conversion of accounts from wow-only to bnet. If you really want to know more, it's up to you, really, and there's some of it in my previous posts.



It's the exact same thing as every time the server is updated and requires a client update. Not to mention you have received notification already, it's on the login screen. And in the ToU you agreed on after each patch since April 14th, too:



So, yeah, you knew it was coming, eventually. Now you know when.



They have notified you.




It's more than enough. Just the ingame notice would be enough, in fact, because then every active player sees it, and people who stopped playing don't need to worry about it.



They know, at any given time, exactly how many accounts are paid for, and how many of these paid accounts are currently connecting to the servers. they can look at the stats after a month/day/whatever and see exactly how many paid accounts haven't connected, if they so wish. They control the game servers, remember? So why use emails (which can fail to get delivered for various reasons) to guesstimate what they already know precisely?




If people are too "lazy" to cancel the payment for a game they are not playing, it's their own bloody fault. If you subscribe to a newspaper that you let pile in the mailbox, the newspaper company has no obligation to remind you that you are wasting money. Same for WoW.



Yeah, it's not like they have put a general FAQ page about battle.net here: https://eu.battle.net/faq/index.html nor the bnet terms of use here: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/termsofuse.html nor the full privacy policy here: http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/about/privacy.html

If only you could read all the legal documents, then you could stop making a mountain out of a molehill. Why doesn't Blizzard disclose that information?

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This is the lawyer of blizzard and his nick name is Epithumia and this is the official Blizzard post?

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Fourth: what the heck? resonable under law? Your opinion is NOT the law my dear poster. They are under NO obligation whatsoever to send you an e-mail. You yourself have commented that you have a service and lots of your customers don't use the e-mail. Do you even think before posting?

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Reasonable forms the basis of law. I don`t like an assumption that there can be only one outcome of a change to terms of any agreement. Particularly when it is an offer of service. It is unreasonable to expect anyone who values something greatly, dare I say to the point of need, being faced with an ultimatum of agree or go away. It is not 'reasonable' and can only indicate that Blizzard in this instance have so much of a hold over users that they can dictate without fear of rejection. That makes me feel very uneasy.

I am sorry that you wish me to leave. You shouldn`t let your emotions colour your logic and power of expression. Verbal discussion is not an argument in the literal sense, it is not about win or lose. I do not think any less of you because you expressed your views here. There are few on this forum that master their verbal skills as well as their WOW characters in battle.

[ quote ]

If only you could read all the legal documents, then you could stop making a mountain out of a molehill. Why doesn't Blizzard disclose that information?[/quote]

[/quote]

OK. You are starting to repeat yourself, so I will snip to that last bit.

You have signed up for the Battle.Net account... I have to assume that. You also had no doubt what so ever about just what you were signing up for. You either read or chose not to read the agreement and terms that now bind you into your future playing time with Blizzard. Your reward is that you can continue playing WOW. Good for you.

I on the other hand have not signed up to anything now beyond 12th November. I doubt whether Blizzard even care. Thing is I do. There are only two choices here... Agree or don`t play. In the past it was just a meaningless load of words that let me get into the game. This time however, Blizzard want to tie me into a bunch of other of their activities that I know nothing about. I will read the legal stuff, trust me. I will take this matter very seriously. And I will either Accept or not. What I won`t do is just say yes cus Blizzard say I have to or else.

I will not post further on this subject as we have done it to death. Suffice to say, however, you have your view and I have mine. And both have their valid points. I remain sceptical. You on the other hand have no choice but to defend your own decision. Human nature.

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Q u o t e:
Reasonable forms the basis of law. I don`t like an assumption that there can be only one outcome of a change to terms of any agreement.

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Legally, there's nothing wrong about that. I'll take a simple example: every year, the price of water (tap water), natural gas and electricity go up. So does your rent, unless you're in a city where last year saw a downward trend. When the prices change, you make the decision to accept the price or to stop receiving water/gas/electricity from the company you usually receive it from. You are even more dependant from electricity than from WoW, yet you most likely accept every price change every year. And it's a black or white choice too, you either pay the new price, or you don't, you get your utility or you don't.

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Q u o t e:
Particularly when it is an offer of service. It is unreasonable to expect anyone who values something greatly, dare I say to the point of need, being faced with an ultimatum of agree or go away.

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It happens every day to thousands and thousands of people all around the world. You don't pay your rent, you get kicked out, and some even end up living under a bridge. One day Blizzard will announce support for WoW will stop and sales will stop, and three or more months later, they'll close the game. You truly won't get a choice then, because it is also their right to stop selling their product/service. Another example here, from my personnal experience. There is this MMO, Ragnrok Online, which came out into beta in late 2002. I played the free Japanese beta along with a lot of non Japanese, then the international beta. Eventually, it got ready to be released, and they announced the price. I really liked the game, but the price at the time was too high for me, so I had to let it go. It was well within their right to bump what I had to pay from 0$ to $15, and my choice was to pay or stop. I stopped.

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Q u o t e:
It is not 'reasonable' and can only indicate that Blizzard in this instance have so much of a hold over users that they can dictate without fear of rejection. That makes me feel very uneasy.

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I read a few other posts by you in other threads unrelated to bnet, and I think I can see why you feel uneasy. There are probably very valid reasons why you play alone, and don't socialize *at all* in a massively multiplayer game, of all places. But really, and you may not like it nor accept it, you are ultimately paying for entertainment, like you'd pay to watch a (very long and interactive) movie or go in a theme park. You can always walk out, if you let your reason make the decision. If you feel like you can't stop playing even though your reason tells you you disagree with the terms they provide it, then it's not a judge/lawyer you need.

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Q u o t e:
You shouldn`t let your emotions colour your logic and power of expression.

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Verbally, you truly are constant and even, but it's your emotion that makes you oppose this change. Bnet doesn't force you to do anything significantly different to play the game, and you can still play alone, but it's a change, and you refuse it because it's a change and not because of how the game will effectively change for you. As far as your playing goes, what you type in the "username" will change. That's it.

Such change is a necessity because they want to push new services and games, and supporting outdated systems is a waste of ressources and a detriment to all the players who want to move forward. They may try to some extent to please as many people as possible, but there will always be people dissatisfied with some aspect, and they still have to push forward.

Epithumia, please relogin and post in blue, as usual... or stop flooding forum.