While we all understand that you might need to translate 4 lines of words into German, Spanish and Russian and start the(see here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20140813511&pageNo=1#0 ) discussion initiated by the American CMs - the question arises:
Do you even care to take EU opinions into the design process or should we just lean back, let whatever our MINORITY of american players comes up with happen and complain hopelessly(like usual) afterwards?

The last time I checked an Armory-crawled statistics page(right now), EU(as its whole) had 20% more guilds aka 20% more players than the US - and yet, do we get any posts on our forums by american devs asking for feedback?




Take this as appropriate feedback for the current circumstances, a rant and flame post would have had way more sarcastic parts in it.

They don't bother with it but claim to read the posts here, usually our blues respond on 'Today I got my first pet' topics.

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Q u o t e:
They don't bother with it but claim to read the posts here, usually our blues respond on 'Today I got my first pet' topics.

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Because they're Community Managers, not developers.

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Q u o t e:
Thanks for not posting a rant/flame post, it serves to not get your post locked or deleted.

4 lines of words? There is substantially more content that requires translation, so please remain patient whilst it's translated and you will find similar threads here in Europe too.

Also a one liner from Ghostcrawler about the European forums.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20136595059&sid=1&pageNo=15#298

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Wouldn't it be a lot easier for you EU-CM's, the dev's and the world to have all english posts on 1 forum instead of 2?. Than you won't see rants like these anymore, well, you would see them on the german/spanish/french forums, but i don't understand them anyway ;-)

Or allow people from Europe to post on the US boards, as long as it is in English.
Usually you see quite some interesting discussions going on with the blues/people on the US boards.
Quite some topics on the EU boards are constructive and posted in a civil way, though we do not get much to discuss.

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Q u o t e:
They don't bother with it but claim to read the posts here, usually our blues respond on 'Today I got my first pet' topics.

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Hehe yea, they reply with usefull stuff maybe 1 / 20 posts but they can't be blamed for that. The Blues that can actually comment something about important issues like for example balance issues are all in the US.
At best the EU forum gets a few internal replies from EU blues to developers to read some thread. Can't say that I see much trace of that, it's always a sad moment when we in EU read a bluepost from a developer and -"what the heck, it's been on our forum for 8 weeks and now it get posted in the US and get a reply"-.

Finally, the fave defensive reply is that -"EU forums(and the rest of the world) offer various languages"-
Hmm, so? The english EU forum is a great source of information. I think not many feel that EU forum serves much of a purpose and that players become annoyed with this kind of reply. Think more than me has been wondering -"hang on, german, russian, spanish etc forums fine, but isn't it better to at least be active on the ENGLISH forum than nothing?"-

No matter how nice the EU blues are I dare to say that most players doesn't give a rats ass of Blue topics like "When did you get your Mr. Pinchy". Maybe time to actually make a more direct way to the US forums (developers) than this gimmick we EU players have at the moment. The fact that these kind of threads pop up regularly should give a hint that it might be a time to look at it.

Have a nice weekend all and remember, Carlsberg > Brewfest by miles :)

Ghostcrawler mentions that a lot of great posts come out of the EU forums but he doesn't read them. Since he is te only developer to actually mention this specifically, it is hard to believe other developers actually read the POSTS, and not some compilation made by the CMs.

Don't take this as a kick at the CMs, I'm sure they do their best, but second generation relation of information will always be poorer, and there is the destinct possibility that the CMs might disregard things a developer might not. I mean, it can't be peanuts they have to sift through. The developer could instantly go and look and say "this is crap" or "this is gold". Having that extra step most certainly hurts the trail of information.
Besides, even if every single good post gets sent forward and the devs rejoice at such a pool of great information, the return infornation is downright nonexistant. There are no answers, there are no responses to feedback. We get at best "we'll forward this".

I find it horribly arrogant honstly that Ghostcrawler won't even read EU posts because he only speaks English... Come on, Europe is apparently 100% non-English right? And the US boards are not home to Spanish speakers. By his reason he shouldn't post at all. If anything his comment on EU posts made it all the more clear that we are subject to differential treatment. And not the good kind.

I'm sure people would understand that since people can't communicate in their language, they either have to communicate in the dev's language or hope for some outside help (CMs). That's how every single other game with developercontact acts that I know of. It is a sad day when people spend more time on a forum they can't be a prt of than their own native one... There have been more than a few of those days.

Combine US and UE-English forums please.

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Q u o t e:
it's always a sad moment when we in EU read a bluepost from a developer and -"what the heck, it's been on our forum for 8 weeks and now it get posted in the US and get a reply"-.

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Mr. Hammer meet Miss Nail. I tried to say the same thing but this is just better than what I posted.

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Q u o t e:
Thanks for not posting a rant/flame post, it serves to not get your post locked or deleted.

4 lines of words? There is substantially more content that requires translation, so please remain patient whilst it's translated and you will find similar threads here in Europe too.

Also a one liner from Ghostcrawler about the European forums.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20136595059&sid=1&pageNo=15#298

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To be honest with the wonderful technology that is the internet and the ability to communicate to people on the other side of the world in mere seconds, there is really no excuse for why the devs decide not to post on the EU forums, especially the English speaking ones.

I don't see the big deal. I can speak to people from America all the time on Facebook, I can even read the U.S World of Warcraft forums just as easily as the EU ones, as you quite happily demonstrated with your link.

So the fact that the WoW Devs choose not to post here can be seen as ludicrous, and gives fuel for the whole arguement of "EU neglect." I see no reason why Ghostcrawler shouldn't reply to this post right now, except for some imaginary, nationalistic border which doesn't exist? :-)

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Q u o t e:


Combine US and UE-English forums please.

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This.

While I would agree with Ancilorn, and I was well aware of the fact that you need to translate the content of the 3 posts as well - you are essentially asking for a Sisyphus type of work at the current speed of execution.

US posts - as right now it seems the US devs/CMs posts on initiative without relaying information, or rather waiting for the initial translations to be done.
EU gets the posts, but does not post ANY before ALL are translated and checked(?).
US already acknowledges feedback, makes changes.
Changes need to be translated, if posts are not up by now they will be further delayed.
EU starts to ask itself - now why exactly did all that happen...

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Q u o t e:
Thanks for not posting a rant/flame post, it serves to not get your post locked or deleted.

4 lines of words? There is substantially more content that requires translation, so please remain patient whilst it's translated and you will find similar threads here in Europe too.

Also a one liner from Ghostcrawler about the European forums.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20136595059&sid=1&pageNo=15#298

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Sorry to say this but that one liner actually did more harm then good. He specifically states that he doesnt read them, but then kind of dodges the incoming comments by saying 'but WE do'. By 'we' i bet he means only the posts that the EU blue's see and compile then send out every X amount of time, whereas GC checks the US forums nearly every day.

Also, that wasnt a one liner, it was two lines : o

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Q u o t e:
Thanks for not posting a rant/flame post, it serves to not get your post locked or deleted.

4 lines of words? There is substantially more content that requires translation, so please remain patient whilst it's translated and you will find similar threads here in Europe too.

Also a one liner from Ghostcrawler about the European forums.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20136595059&sid=1&pageNo=15#298

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Ancilorn,

The issue for the majority of people isn't that "post don't get read, of you CM's dont pass feedback along" I believe you do, and I'm sure most EU players think the same,

the issue and reason why we get a "Blizz don't care about EU" post every other week is because of the below link

http://www.worldofraids.com/wow-blue-tracker/us-forums/20143783047-dots-hots-and-haste.html

look blizz announced Haste now effects certain dots and hots (which we have a mirror of in the eu forums)

except on the US one, if you comment, look GC replied and explained why, then someone questioned what he said and he went into abit more depth

the engaging back and forth debate of the US posts is what most people in the EU miss.

the best example of this oddly isn't GC its Dresorull, you post a bug and he actually comments on it, says its known or asks for some more info etc

http://www.worldofraids.com/wow-blue-tracker/3-ptr/1.html

thats whats lacking, and I suspect till its fixed we'll always get a "EU sucks" post every few weeks

so if you can, maybe pass along to people like Dresorull that maybe he could comment on our bugs if its a major one, as he does in the US (And I'm sure he can post, as Daelo managed it fine during Ulduar PTR testing schedules)

never quite understood why we could not post on US forums...

Aren't we speaking english right now?

I believe that they should indeed be able to post here, and they only refrain from doing so because they're prolly told not to interfere with EU forums.

That's cowpoo, since we're people too, and we deserve to ask Ghostcrawler some stuff too.

I thought about buying a US account just to be able to speak in the US forums, since i really have some points i want to get some devs to see and give their opinion on, but it's just too much money.

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Q u o t e:
Thanks for not posting a rant/flame post, it serves to not get your post locked or deleted.

4 lines of words? There is substantially more content that requires translation, so please remain patient whilst it's translated and you will find similar threads here in Europe too.

Also a one liner from Ghostcrawler about the European forums.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=20136595059&sid=1&pageNo=15#298

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Thing is though, as understandable, logical and defendable the current situation might be, I'd say you'd have a happier playerbase overall if there were 1 place for Dev info and feedback from customers. Not many. Especially not many where 1 is seen as being "the real one" and the others are percepted as copy-pasted afterthoughts. I know they're not. I believe the Dev's try to get their feedback from everywhere. But, you'll never get rid of these types of complaints if this doesn't change.

So, I'd suggest releasing news and feedback request in 1 location, in all languages, at the same time. Hire some translaters to translate the non-english feedback for the dev's and translate their responses. Bit of work, costs a bit more, might go a way towards getting rid of this "It's all about the US" stigma :D

Alternatively, you could keep it all in english and say "wanna participate globally? learn english! :D"

Anyway, personally I don't really care (I post on forums more because I like typing post than because I think it'll achieve anything) but everytime I see this unfounded complaint and then the justified defence being flamed because no-one believes it I think "why not be one step ahead of them instead of two behind?"

They're too afraid to come here because they think we're their stereotypical Europeans, or caricatures, or in other words: French.

VE DZON'T VANT YOUR HAMBURGUERRE YOU FILTHSY AMERICAINS!

Face it people, we're the lower city vagebont members. Have been like that since the start. Unlikely to be changed

Europe: Ghostcrawler, come over here!
Ghostcrawler: I could,
Ghostcrawler: *takes on glasses*
Ghostcrawler: But I won't.
YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH