Ive been playing some 2s with an afflic lock who has now switched to destro, we are both pretty new to the comp and have made around 1600 ish so far in the last couple of weeks...

I tend to stack SP\Int with some hit and run around 850-900 res as most of the time my lock gets focused not me...am around +2250 + heal and 17200ish mana now. relentless offpieces and furious/deadly main set with 1 hateful left iirc.

My standard heal sequence is Riptide>LHW>LHW with the odd HW thrown in for heavy damage or panic situations. Tidal force used when off CD or needed urgently. I ES whoever they focus, obv and drink whenever I can.

Vs rogue + healer teams we tend to do OK if we can keep some distance..this avoids the sap>blind problem. Normally if we survive the opening we outlast rog + healer teams but I do need to drink at every chance.

Vs Warr + healer teams the only way to win seems to be to CC the warr early and go all out on the healer, this seems to win us maybe 25% of games. If the warr gets set on my lock he cant get away the MS sends me OOM after a couple of minutes.A good CC rotation wins these games.

We seem to do pretty well vs ret/hunter/dk etc + healer teams. We tend to either outlast/OOM them or get a kill on one or the other with a fear>hex chain on one or the other.

Shamans are trickier ofc cos of tremor. Geared druids are also tough to kill but tend to die eventually with purge/silence on them or a surprise destro wotlk lolburst.

Our biggest problems are vs double DPS teams, especially ones containing a rogue. I read that getting into combat early and avoiding sap can work, so we have tried rushing the enemy that we can see and opening on him. However, this can leave me open and I die fast if they both set up on me. Staying apart can help, so that sap wears off on me and I can get into position to heal.

Vs double DPS in general we win if we survive the first few seconds of burst but thats rare. we faced a wall of 2x DPs yesterday and went from touching 1600 downward. Lock/rogue, mage/rogue or ret/rogue seem almost impossible. One ret/rogue did 90k of DPS on us in what felt like a few seconds(we managed 25-30) and that was that even with all cooldowns blown and every defensive tactic used. I was healing flat out then I died.

The problem is CC. If I avoid sap, I get blind, the pala can HoJ if I dont get grounding down, if its a mage ofc he can spam sheep etc. Since the cleansing nerf (ty Dks) it seems almost impossible to get away from rogues as they just reapply poisons quicker than I can clean them with cleanse spirit + totem down. The games go like this:

I totem x4, ES me, riptide me, drop stoneclaw and try to stay out of sight. They rush either the lock or me, I trinket one CC, catch another then they unload ridiculous amounts of burst which is unhealable. My lock is running decent gear and sometimes dies while I am full burn healing him. I basically stand healing flat out and hoping that I dont catch a CC, cos if I miss one heal he dies.

If they set up on me the number of interrupts they have mean its imposssible to heal. In one game we took 65k of DPS from a rog/mage and got one heal off after their interrupts/CC. Sap/blind/sheep/frost nova/kick >gg. Pillar kiting helps a bit but they catch me after a while.

If a rogue focuses my lock its almost impossible for him to cast or try to get a fear off.

So...any tips vs our problem combos or general tips from high rated lock/shaman teams?

There are some 2v2 strats on AJ but they are a bit outdated..
I also seem to remember that in the past double dps teams tended to disappear above 1800 ish, not sure if this is still true.

Thanks for any help..yesterday was pretty depressing.
There are some really fun games with tacs/positioning etc and we win 10 hard points then the next game lasts 10 seconds and we drop again.


TL;DR: WTF for sham/lock to do vs burst from double DPS containing rouge -> QQ.


5th

Since im way to lazy to read.

Who dies, you or your warlock?

Playing the setup myself at around 2750+ MMR and played the setup alot last season, so i reckon i can give you a few headsup if you can answer the question!

to start off have your lock spec affliction

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Q u o t e:
Vs Warr + healer teams the only way to win seems to be to CC the warr early and go all out on the healer, this seems to win us maybe 25% of games. If the warr gets set on my lock he cant get away the MS sends me OOM after a couple of minutes.A good CC rotation wins these games.

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Here we actually cc the healer and nuke down the warrior, games last from 20 sec to 1 min

Let them rush you, dot up the warrior have your shaman support on dps, While dots running open cc on the druid.
you can use deathcoil or silence to buy some time if out of range..

If the druid is so stupid that he stays in tree form just fear fear fear banish banish banish.
Quaranteed win..

Ps. If cc fails dont panic, presure them boft for while let the DR on druid reset. after DR done open with cc again on druid and try to nuke down the warrior, they die quite easyly.
Also dispell hots while druid is cced

VS rogue dps the game relies alot on your warlock, pretty much 100% he has to rotate hes cc enugh so he can cut out boft of the dps.
Also have your main target here the rogue if its rogue / dps, Presureing him will often force them little defencive.


And yes that guide on AJ is made by me and its alot outdated... Update in On the way
Mainly focused in 3v3 this season so taking some time to update the guide

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Q u o t e:
Since im way to lazy to read.

Who dies, you or your warlock?

Playing the setup myself at around 2750+ MMR and played the setup alot last season, so i reckon i can give you a few headsup if you can answer the question!

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The quick answer is whoever they focus.
If they catch me I tend to get shut down and die.

If they catch the lock I often cant outheal them, if I catch one CC he tends to die.

In both situations the combined burst just seems impossible.

We win some games if I am left alone to heal flat out on the lock until one of them(rog usually) dies.




And hello bluetorch - it was you who wrote the AJ guide :o)

Update would be <3 xxxx

maybe it will help if I post some speecific situs:


1) ret/rog - I can see the ret and setup defensively, rogue saps me then goes to dps lock, ret joins him. if I wait out sap I am too far behind to heal him, if I trinket sap rog comes over and blinds me and/ or ret HoJs me - gg


2) rog/mage - I can see mage, he waits, rog saps either me or lock then they both open on me, I trinket one of blind/poly/frost nova and try to shock mage to interrupt while healing flat out and trying to clean poisons. I die.



In either situ is *sometimes* works if we both rush the thing we can see and start to DPS it, that way I avoid sap but these combos still have enough CC to cause me problems. Also after we rush I tend to be in the middle of things, they both focus me, I die.

In a rog + healer setup the rog alone does high DPS on my lock and I need to heal pretty fast. When combined with another high burst class its O.O


In these situs the sheer burst they produce just overrides what I can heal. I pop tidal waves and bomb riptide>HW>HW onto the lock to keep him up but if I miss 1-2 heals he is dead in a few seconds even with ES on him.

One game yest I caught a sap, waited it out and by the time I got near enough to start casting the lock was dead.

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Q u o t e:
to start off have your lock spec affliction


Here we actually cc the healer and nuke down the warrior, games last from 20 sec to 1 min

Let them rush you, dot up the warrior have your shaman support on dps, While dots running open cc on the druid.
you can use deathcoil or silence to buy some time if out of range..

If the druid is so stupid that he stays in tree form just fear fear fear banish banish banish.
Quaranteed win..

Ps. If cc fails dont panic, presure them boft for while let the DR on druid reset. after DR done open with cc again on druid and try to nuke down the warrior, they die quite easyly.
Also dispell hots while druid is cced

VS rogue dps the game relies alot on your warlock, pretty much 100% he has to rotate hes cc enugh so he can cut out boft of the dps.
Also have your main target here the rogue if its rogue / dps, Presureing him will often force them little defencive.


And yes that guide on AJ is made by me and its alot outdated... Update in On the way
Mainly focused in 3v3 this season so taking some time to update the guide

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Its obvious that the warrior / healer teams you fight are not any good, saying that the fight lasts 20 sec to 1 min is just not true if the warrior has any clue about how to play his class.

Edit: Going away for abit now, will return with answers on all ur questions when i get back at around 14:30.

Warrior can use shieldblock, intervien to the druid but if you get perfect CC pulled off you can nuke down the warrior.

Still dont see fights lasting alot longer than 1-3 min due aggresive game play we use, shaman uses alot of hes mana supporting in nuke and purging hots

Also i explained wrong fight can last up to 10 min without any thing serious happening.
But if you manage to pull off the cc then its that time left

Btw: your team was played by inflame untill this week? Awesome :D
If its the one and only inflame

So...any ideas for the scenarios I posted from you 2?
Thx again..

:o)

Even though i dont play lock + healer in 2's and am a relative noob compared to ghingis...

Its all about your locks abbilitie to dodge dmg when u get cced. Quick port will make it very managable. Earthbind totem + lossing the mage especially. As shaman put the mage on focus and start practicing interupt grounding rotations. Speaks for itselve that your lock needs to dispell sheeps if they do manage to land one.

As a lock i would prefer using trinket quite early if it means u get some dps time on the rogue.

Most of the rogue+random teams shouldnt be too hard, but ofc some of them can surprise you with alot of burst and lockdown.

I tend to start with es on myself and keep refreshing riptide on the lock, if they go for him, he can usually survive a sap by using trinket,battlemastertrinket and healthstone. after that i switch es to him and ns heal him if its needed to get him topped.

havnt had any real problems with rogue/lock so cant realy help you there, just shock or ground chaosbolt, and make sure you take turns in interupting him, also keep tremor up. make sure your lock devours immolate.

mage/rogue can be tricky if played well, or if the mage is arcane and does lolburst. but it shouldnt bee too hard if you save trinket for the second kidney and your lock is good at using devours and spellocks.

ret rogue can however be quite hard, and especcially if they sit on you, just try to spamheal while your lock peels and goes for a kill on either target.

our main problem is however not 2dps, its warrior teams for obvious reasons, and some feral teams aswell, as if they needed the instant cyclone buff qq

Pro shammy from pro guild...<Zylos Hand> lived on alakir for a while...
<3



Thanks to all for tips - any more would be appreciated
xx

5th


edit:oh yes the rogue/feral teams that have appeared are a lot of fun O.O


sap>blind>kick>instant cyclone>what?

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Q u o t e:
Warrior can use shieldblock, intervien to the druid but if you get perfect CC pulled off you can nuke down the warrior.

Still dont see fights lasting alot longer than 1-3 min due aggresive game play we use, shaman uses alot of hes mana supporting in nuke and purging hots

Also i explained wrong fight can last up to 10 min without any thing serious happening.
But if you manage to pull off the cc then its that time left

Btw: your team was played by inflame untill this week? Awesome :D
If its the one and only inflame

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Ye, inflame played with Nx.
Just moved to stormscale and started playing with Nx again, since i played with him last season aswell.

So i will be playing in this team since inflame is jumping teams alot, managed to fight him in a mirror twice yesterday and win though, but hes extremely good.

Edit: Im at work right now, will be home at around 18:00 game time, will give you some proper tactics then, got to much to do atm :(

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Q u o t e:
Most of the rogue+random teams shouldnt be too hard, but ofc some of them can surprise you with alot of burst and lockdown.

I tend to start with es on myself and keep refreshing riptide on the lock, if they go for him, he can usually survive a sap by using trinket,battlemastertrinket and healthstone. after that i switch es to him and ns heal him if its needed to get him topped.

havnt had any real problems with rogue/lock so cant realy help you there, just shock or ground chaosbolt, and make sure you take turns in interupting him, also keep tremor up. make sure your lock devours immolate.

mage/rogue can be tricky if played well, or if the mage is arcane and does lolburst. but it shouldnt bee too hard if you save trinket for the second kidney and your lock is good at using devours and spellocks.

ret rogue can however be quite hard, and especcially if they sit on you, just try to spamheal while your lock peels and goes for a kill on either target.

our main problem is however not 2dps, its warrior teams for obvious reasons, and some feral teams aswell, as if they needed the instant cyclone buff qq

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This , just started playing warlock shaman with a friend who used to play ret and ehh he is still getting used to the warlock playstyle . We can handle dobule dps pretty well but warrior teams i have no clue what to do especially druid/warrior.

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Q u o t e:
maybe it will help if I post some speecific situs:


1) ret/rog - I can see the ret and setup defensively, rogue saps me then goes to dps lock, ret joins him. if I wait out sap I am too far behind to heal him, if I trinket sap rog comes over and blinds me and/ or ret HoJs me - gg


2) rog/mage - I can see mage, he waits, rog saps either me or lock then they both open on me, I trinket one of blind/poly/frost nova and try to shock mage to interrupt while healing flat out and trying to clean poisons. I die.



In either situ is *sometimes* works if we both rush the thing we can see and start to DPS it, that way I avoid sap but these combos still have enough CC to cause me problems. Also after we rush I tend to be in the middle of things, they both focus me, I die.

In a rog + healer setup the rog alone does high DPS on my lock and I need to heal pretty fast. When combined with another high burst class its O.O


In these situs the sheer burst they produce just overrides what I can heal. I pop tidal waves and bomb riptide>HW>HW onto the lock to keep him up but if I miss 1-2 heals he is dead in a few seconds even with ES on him.

One game yest I caught a sap, waited it out and by the time I got near enough to start casting the lock was dead.

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First things first i think affliction is much better in this comp but whateva.

Played this comp s5,s6 to 2500+, ofc im not a expert like ghingis or bluetorch but i can chip in. From what i read your lock dies while you are in sap, what most good locks tend to do is stand about 30 yards from his healer and lay a portal near him. When you get sapped he should wait 2-4 seconds since the rogue is probably sprinting towards your lock to open on him so your lock basically waits 2-4 seconds and teleports doing that will waste majority of rogues sprint and the sap will prolly have max 3 sec left so u dont have to trinket it. Your lock should always devour repentance, HOJ etc. And if its not a UD rogue team you can easily fear lock the rogue while just leting the ret dps you. As destro i dont see a prob really you can take 50%+ of the rogues hp with a sf immo backlash conflag combo. You can even kill him if it crits all. I find these comps easier as affliction then destro because once u full dot the rogue he will die after clos.

vs MR, you could lose to a double UD team thats just zerging your shaman pretty easy since they are unpeelable first 30 sec of the game. If they go for lock he should do the same teleport trick like vs ret /rog. If the mage is really good with winterchilling sheeps you are in trouble but most aren't and u really arent on high ratings yet. So your lock should devour sheeps all the time, he should only spell lock frost spells when the mage is trying to shatter or him and you just shock, grounding the rest. You can always cycle it so you nulify the mages dmg in the start, this is a situation where they go for lock. Oh and your lock shouldnt trinket KS if he is not under pressure cause that opens up a posibility for your lock to eat a blind and they switch to you. If they go for you hope your lock is good and try to survive while they are nuking, dont be scared to trinket KS since blinding you and going for lock wont be enough to kill him cause of teleport, hs, BM trinket.

It seems that your lock kinda sucks at kiting and dies while you are in sap, that really shouldnt happen anymore

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Q u o t e:
Lending this thread a 'lil visibility. Perhaps more of our forum strategists can chime in with ideas and thoughts? :)

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love to see increased blue activity all over forums

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Q u o t e:


First things first i think affliction is much better in this comp but whateva.

Played this comp s5,s6 to 2500+, ofc im not a expert like ghingis or bluetorch but i can chip in. From what i read your lock dies while you are in sap, what most good locks tend to do is stand about 30 yards from his healer and lay a portal near him. When you get sapped he should wait 2-4 seconds since the rogue is probably sprinting towards your lock to open on him so your lock basically waits 2-4 seconds and teleports doing that will waste majority of rogues sprint and the sap will prolly have max 3 sec left so u dont have to trinket it. Your lock should always devour repentance, HOJ etc. And if its not a UD rogue team you can easily fear lock the rogue while just leting the ret dps you. As destro i dont see a prob really you can take 50%+ of the rogues hp with a sf immo backlash conflag combo. You can even kill him if it crits all. I find these comps easier as affliction then destro because once u full dot the rogue he will die after clos.

vs MR, you could lose to a double UD team thats just zerging your shaman pretty easy since they are unpeelable first 30 sec of the game. If they go for lock he should do the same teleport trick like vs ret /rog. If the mage is really good with winterchilling sheeps you are in trouble but most aren't and u really arent on high ratings yet. So your lock should devour sheeps all the time, he should only spell lock frost spells when the mage is trying to shatter or him and you just shock, grounding the rest. You can always cycle it so you nulify the mages dmg in the start, this is a situation where they go for lock. Oh and your lock shouldnt trinket KS if he is not under pressure cause that opens up a posibility for your lock to eat a blind and they switch to you. If they go for you hope your lock is good and try to survive while they are nuking, dont be scared to trinket KS since blinding you and going for lock wont be enough to kill him cause of teleport, hs, BM trinket.

It seems that your lock kinda sucks at kiting and dies while you are in sap, that really shouldnt happen anymore

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dont play this comp but just curious what if they get a kill on pet. that makes it a hell or?...
and just want to add. i play with a rogue and mage rogue is a pain to survive as a shaman. 2 interupts , 3 stuns, 1 spammable cc. 1 cd cc. snares and a huge amount of burst and yes i got farmed by a team mage rogue yesterday. the mage was jumping around wotlk style just pumping out dmg and blowing cooldowns before the rogue popped out because the mage knew they would kille me so easy he didnt need to spare any cds for the kill

edit: posted on warrior :(

Keeping pet up is often very tough also, they will global it before you can get a heal off if the lock doesnt keep it tucked away.

Thank you for the blizz tag floaty blue squid <3

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Q u o t e:


dont play this comp but just curious what if they get a kill on pet. that makes it a hell or?...
and just want to add. i play with a rogue and mage rogue is a pain to survive as a shaman. 2 interupts , 3 stuns, 1 spammable cc. 1 cd cc. snares and a huge amount of burst and yes i got farmed by a team mage rogue yesterday. the mage was jumping around wotlk style just pumping out dmg and blowing cooldowns before the rogue popped out because the mage knew they would kille me so easy he didnt need to spare any cds for the kill

edit: posted on warrior :(

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If they go for double pets they will lose, as i said after rogue uses clos vs aff lock its over he will get full doted and die from it. And he will have to use it he intends to kill 2 pets. I had most probs when they went for my shaman but that was before ress change so i guess shamans can survive MR pretty easy now. I dont really think your shaman can die now if u interupt the mage pretty early in the game. Even use coil before IB if that means that you will stop a inc shatter. The damage comes from the mage not the rogue.

I dont really get it, you play shaman rogue? Why didnt u lose the mages casts early i mean just los it? Or have your rogue sap the mage and open on him with garrote, in those 3 sec you can easily for a block with a flame shock lava burst and dmg from rogue. Ofc your rogue should vanish after it and try to sap the rogue. After IB try hex mage if he trinkets blind, he cant block cause of hypo kill rogue

Against Double DPS teams hitting shadowfury and doublefearing with Howl of Terror is splendid idea, this will most likely force trinket atleast on Rog/Ret teams, which allows your Shaman to hex someone for the full duration.

This ofcourse also works as Affliction since you can do the fear instantly.