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Q u o t e:


i suggested to take shatter earlier, it's in my post.... you didn't read it?

notice the ":p" after my first sentence????

clearly criticism often gets mistaken for harsh comments on these boards. But that's understandable on these boards...

and insulting me for arse isn' getting you any far either....

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I dont think he was referring to you mate, I think he ment post 36 by "Ruin" or maybe thats you?

^^ oh, no that's not me at all, :)

i'll shut up now :)

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Q u o t e:


I dont think he was referring to you mate, I think he ment post 36 by "Ruin" or maybe thats you?

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This

Hey there guys, firstly great guide, thank you for taking the time to write it.

Secondly, I love the idea of fire and burning my enemies down, but I don't like the idea of too much down time so, I came up with a this build.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=03200503300030000000000000000003550020123000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Helps keep my mana regen pretty high thus reducing down time.

Let me know what you think, and please take it easy this is my first caster character :)

Dammit, This is my mage!

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Q u o t e:
Hey there guys, firstly great guide, thank you for taking the time to write it.

Secondly, I love the idea of fire and burning my enemies down, but I don't like the idea of too much down time so, I came up with a this build.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=03200503300030000000000000000003550020123000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Helps keep my mana regen pretty high thus reducing down time.

Let me know what you think, and please take it easy this is my first caster character :)

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Hi there,
I looked at your spec, and that would obviously DRASTICALLY improve your mana conservation, BUT I would never spec this way as it also SEVERELY nerfs your damage, as you first have to spend 19 (thats all teh way to level 28!!) points which does virtually nothing for your damage, before you start speccing fire.

So I think you would be better off drinking a bit :)

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Q u o t e:


Hi there,
I looked at your spec, and that would obviously DRASTICALLY improve your mana conservation, BUT I would never spec this way as it also SEVERELY nerfs your damage, as you first have to spend 19 (thats all teh way to level 28!!) points which does virtually nothing for your damage, before you start speccing fire.

So I think you would be better off drinking a bit :)

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Agree'd whilst it would improve your mana efficiency, your kill-rate would be destroyed. You want to go straight into fire right from the off drinking doesn't take that long. Not to blown ones own horn, but if I was to advise a spec I'd advise the one I posted earlier, apart from a point here or there for personal preference, that is the fire leveling spec you want mate :).

reported your previous request for the extra posts at the start so you can spread it better hope you get them:)

good guide as well alot of usefull info.

a minor suggestion is to tell them to play with there spec a bit, might seem trivial but new mage's can learn alot by doing it.

it would end the minor dicussion on whether to take shatter or not as it may work for your playstyle better than another player who prefers to play differently.

i leveled as fire untill about 30 ish (can't quite remember now) then frost and mid 70's was frost arcane, frost was a bit dull at times but tbh the kiting ability and survivability far out weigh any negatives the spec has.

a minor addition for usefull glyphs for each spec would be good as well, help new mages choose appropriatly.

stats while lvling is a difficult issue and i'm sure the OP was aware of that when he started the thread, sp-haste-int-crit are all fairly rare at lower lvl's on gear and it's not untill you get past 50 ish that gear starts to get usefull,
you can get atlas loot and look for items and with a bit of help from a friend or guild get the best items for your level.

the side effect from presison is a fairly usefull talent tbh as it will give you longer up time than not having it, hit rating is a mages best friend untill capped and frost and fire require more than arcane so this talent is usefull while lvling. it certainly shouldn't be ignored.

great guide and i hope alot of new mages enjoy it and also know they can ask for advice on these forums anytime without being flamed for it though sadly some will.

Hey Magelan,

Thank you for your kind words.

I will add glyphs soon, as I have also seen this beeing requested by other posters.

I strongly agree with you (and thus myself :)) in that elemental precision is a must-have talent hit IS a mages best friend (untill capped ofc) and the passive mana decrease reduces down time which is the key to effecient lvling.

Ok, so I will be going back to fire then, thanks for the constructive criticism, I really appreciate it.

Since I can only use two glyphs, I was thinking about Imp Scorch and Mage Armor, to help with mana regen and getting 5 stacks of scorch up instantly is very handy :)

Nice guide! I am in the "fire is more fun" camp and level fire, but have a frost dual spec since there are still plenty of fire immune mobs in the old world. I don't see much difference in downtime or killing speed, but I have to admit that frost has a clear advantage in survivability.
If I may, I would like to suggest some alterations for your fire guide, based on my experience (so mostly until level 60)

5 Points "Improved Fireball" - This is your main offensive ability, reducing the cast time is essential. So true!
5 Points "Ignite" - This is a considerable damage boost, which really starts showing when you get the +3 talents deeper down
1 Point in "Pyroblast" - This is a powerful spell, however very expensive (22% base mana) and with a long cast time. Despite the mana cost, this is my standard opener.
2 Points "Burning Soul" - As fire you don’t have the kiting element, and will often be hit while casting, so a 70% reduction of lost cast time is desirable
2 Points in "Flame Throwing" - That is 6 extra yards the mob has to run before it can hit you. I value that more than a random stun
3 Points in "Improved Scorch" - Not so much for the applied debuff (no point in stacking this on a single mob) but rather for the 3% fireball crit.
2 Points in "Master of Elements" - Returns mana on crit, reducing down time
1 Point in "Blast wave"
1 Point in "Master of Elements" (you now have 3/3)
3 Points in "Critical Mass" -Adds 6% crit to all your fire spells
5 Points in "Fire Power" - Adds 10% damage to all your fire spells, very nice damage boost
1 Point in "Combustion" - Powerful Cooldown for only one point
3 Points in "Pyromaniac" - More crit and more effective mage armor so more mana regeneration! A must have, IMO. I would not recommend "Molten Fury" since all non-elite mobs will die by your next spell anyways when below 35% HP, and I would only take "Blazing Speed" if you expect a lot of PvP action, and then frost is the way to go. ;) Otherwise, mobs are dead or almost dead when they reach you, so no need to run any faster.
3 Points in "World in Flames" - More crit for Pyroblast and your AoE. And crit is good!
3 Points in "Empowered Fire" - Increases your spellpower by 15% and increases mana regen from crits even further. (Note: I actually went with 3/3 "Incineration" but I think "Empowered Fire" would be the better choice.)
1 Point in "Dragon's Breath" - Powerful Spell for just one point. And now you have 3 spells which allow you to get out of melee range if necessary.
3 Points in "Hot Streak"- Very fun talent but can be difficult to not "lose" procs when soloing.
1 Point in "Firestarter" - You don't AoE as fire unless you have to, but then it can be very useful.
5 Points in "Burnout" - Gives you nice big fat crits, increasing the wonderful feeling of playing fire. :D
1 Point in "Living Bomb" - You might not use it that much while solo leveling, but it is only one point for a cool spell.

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Q u o t e:
frost is boring!.

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no

To the OP: you might want to consider adding a quick link to a complete talent tree for level 80 (or 75/66) on your favourite talent calc site - it's what I was looking for when I saw this post, as I'm currently levelling my mage and I wanted to easily see the whole picture.

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Q u o t e:
To the OP: you might want to consider adding a quick link to a complete talent tree for level 80 (or 75/66) on your favourite talent calc site - it's what I was looking for when I saw this post, as I'm currently levelling my mage and I wanted to easily see the whole picture.

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Done.

Also in other notes, I have seen some good feedback and suggestions for improvements to especially the fire guide, which I will be revisiting very soon.

Thank you for your feedback and comments.

Okay Vaneras, no problem.
new link is here: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=10222013984&postId=102209749063&sid=1

I've levelled three mages to 70, and one to 80. Fire is a better levelling spec, since everything dies within 3 fireballs and all the slows and stuff don't really have any effect since Burning Soul means you don't lose cast time. Also, you always oom before running out of health even if being hit by each mob you fight, so defensive spells are purposeless.

This changes at about level 45, at which point you can have enough frost talents to make frost better, but I'd recommend fire until 50 and then respec to get WE.

Most important though:
You should make a note that low level mages should NOT take Ignite. It is **useless** for low level mages, since as I mentioned before, everything dies within 3 fireballs and low level mages also have about 4.5% crit chance - hardly worth 5 points! They can be better spent on Incineration and Imp Fireblast.

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Q u o t e:
I've levelled three mages to 70, and one to 80. Fire is a better levelling spec, since everything dies within 3 fireballs and all the slows and stuff don't really have any effect since Burning Soul means you don't lose cast time. Also, you always oom before running out of health even if being hit by each mob you fight, so defensive spells are purposeless.

This changes at about level 45, at which point you can have enough frost talents to make frost better, but I'd recommend fire until 50 and then respec to get WE.

Most important though:
You should make a note that low level mages should NOT take Ignite. It is **useless** for low level mages, since as I mentioned before, everything dies within 3 fireballs and low level mages also have about 4.5% crit chance - hardly worth 5 points! They can be better spent on Incineration and Imp Fireblast.

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Now this I disagree with. I also have levelled multiple mages to 70 and this to 80 and in my experience Frost is better. Surely fire kills them in 3 fireballs, but frost kills them in 3-4 also as well as having a lower cast time on Frostbolt itself. So let's look at this -

You kill 1 mob every 3 fireballs = 9 seconds. Can kill 5 mobs before OOM, 15 seconds to drink thats 5 mobs per minute.

You kill 1 mob every 3.5 frostbolts (averaged out) = 8.75 seconds. Can kill 8 mobs before OOM, 15 seconds to drink, thats 6 mobs per minute.

Not only are you getting better mana efficiency, cast time, less being hit. But your also getting more kills/minute. On top of this Burning Soul is not 100% pushback resistance so technically you still will eat some pushback probably reducing that to 4.5ish mobs per minute as fire.

Naturally these aren't exact numbers however this is the correct "ratio" if you will in my experience. There are also a number of group Q's that can be solo'd as frost as well as multi-pulls you can do to speed up quests that would be undoable without defensive spells such as Ice Barrier.

Your 'important' note is also debatable. Whilst true ignites value is lacking at low levels you must remember, incinerate and improved fireblast are even less useful, theyre useless. Incinerate increases crit chance of non-fireball, thats what you spam when leveling, spending 3 talent points to boost an ability you'll cast maybe 10 times in your ENTIRITY of leveling is just stupid in my opinion. On the topic of improved Fire Blast, no. Never use fireblast when leveling, its DPS is worse than fireballs and its DPM is worse than fireballs not only will you kill slower but you will also give yourself more downtime. If you try to reason this with "yes but you could use it to finish mobs off" then I can easily retaliate with "In what way shape and form does -CD help you when finishing mobs off as fire you kill a mob every 9 seconds or so the original CD is lower than that discluding running-to-mob time."

In summary. Frost > Fire for leveling efficiency, period. However if you believe fire is more entertaining go for it, but replacing Ignite for Incinerate//Improved Fire Blast is just a nono if you care about efficiency and speed, the only upside to these is erm...you can crit an instant cast more? O.o. So you can erm...proc ignite more! Oh wait. AAAAAANYWAY just don't :).