Nice to see that smth is going on at least. But i want to point few things:

"Shadowstep (Subtlety) can now be used at any time, not only while stealthed. Threat caused by next Ambush, Garrote or Backstab is reduced by 50%. Cooldown increased to 40 seconds."

This is actually more of a nerf to shadowstep. The reason is shadowstep is burst dmg build, so atm u can shadowstep, dps some, then vanish + shadowstep again + prep + vanish +shadowstep again. So after patch burst is getting nerfed and believe me, noone will spec subtlely anyway.

"Blind is now a physical (no longer a poison) attack. Reagent requirement removed. Now shares the same diminish category as Cyclone and is now diminshed in PvE as well as PvP. "

So it wont be remove by dorf racial but u wont be able to blind pala in bop. sad

"Fleet Footed (Assassination) now increases movement speed by 8/15%. (doesn’t stack)"

That is rly nice, more mobility ftw.

"Ruthlessness now only affects melee finishing moves. "

Getting owned by mage whiners.

"Rogue's Deadly Throw missile speed increased significantly and snare duration increased slightly. "

Looks like a buff, thx.

I'd reall really really like to see it confirmed that the Ruthlessness nerf will not affect SnD, as its not technically a 'melee' finisher

As for the rest its all pretty meh tbh.

Shadowstep buff - it's a great buff to counter the kiting, so the ruthlessness nerf doesn't matter to the REAL pvp rogues.

Blind buff - GREAT!

Fleet footed buff - to counter kiting issues re-entered by removing a CHANCE BASED COUNTER KITING MOVE (stop the whining, it's pure luck based and you shouldn't rely on it). Does fleet footed stack with Camouflage (sub)? I'd like to know

Poisons buff - It's a buff, but it's a bit overdone, I believe everyone could live with 30 min duration :)

Ruthlessness nerf - Oh noes, now I can't get a combo point back from SnD or DT... /cry

... get real, it's 60% chance and the 3 talent points are better spent elsewhere, for PvE AND PvP.

Deadly Throw buff - For everyone that DIDN'T rely on pure luck skills (like me) this is good to hear.


There could have been other changes, but this is ok I think.


And Vaneras, don't you ever get tired of whining people? :)

blind is nice but apart from that none of this helps in pve

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Q u o t e:
Shadowstep buff - it's a great buff to counter the kiting, so the ruthlessness nerf doesn't matter to the REAL pvp rogues.

Blind buff - GREAT!

Fleet footed buff - to counter kiting issues re-entered by removing a CHANCE BASED COUNTER KITING MOVE (stop the whining, it's pure luck based and you shouldn't rely on it). Does fleet footed stack with Camouflage (sub)? I'd like to know

Poisons buff - It's a buff, but it's a bit overdone, I believe everyone could live with 30 min duration :)

Ruthlessness nerf - Oh noes, now I can't get a combo point back from SnD or DT... /cry

... get real, it's 60% chance and the 3 talent points are better spent elsewhere, for PvE AND PvP.

Deadly Throw buff - For everyone that DIDN'T rely on pure luck skills (like me) this is good to hear.


There could have been other changes, but this is ok I think.


And Vaneras, don't you ever get tired of whining people? :)

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So you , the real pvp rogue will spec SP i guess :P

The Fact that you can skip ruthlessness DOESN'T mean its not a nerf.

DT increased to supposedly 1 sec will solve the kitting? And FF 15% when everyone else has 10% from enchants it will take you ages to reach a target.

If you meant me as a whiner i just mentioned what i see as nerf and what not. I hope there are more changes to come that will make up for these nerfs/fixes

Slince and Dice IS MELEE FINISHING MOVE because it affects MELEE ATTAKCS ONLY.

Made it bold, but i doubt people can read, so expect incoming 100 whine posts on these forums.

Fleet footed 15% speed increase, Cool

Deadly throw changes, think i rather had the old one tbh but can't say for sure

Blind changes, nice buff, reagents for the only CC ( sap is @*@% most of the time ) sucked, poison dispell in over half the teams sucked more.

Dirty deeds, nice change i guess, at least people who have this after patch could have taken it for other reasons then misclicking while respeccing :p

Shadowstep.... so to fix rogue mobility problems the only thing i seen so far is changing a 41 point tallent in a tree that no one used atm, and after patch i still don't think it will be good to go sub, hope im wrong.


Think with daggers it will still be mutilate thats king, so no sub spec there. And unless they put in some really sick hemo weapons/changes i don't think hemo will be good either

Ohh so no PVE buffs at all after al the recent nerfs....thanks a bunch

No problems with giving PVP/Arena rogues buffs at all which is noce to see

theres alot of fluff in there such as the poisons 30mins/1 hour makes little difference seem to be its been thrown in there to say look we give you buff..i mean really how many rogues care about reapplying poisons ever 30 minutes...

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Q u o t e:

Ruthlessness nerf - Oh noes, now I can't get a combo point back from SnD or DT... /cry

... get real, it's 60% chance and the 3 talent points are better spent elsewhere, for PvE AND PvP.

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Ruthlessnes is a key raiding talent you idiot. Nerfing this on SnD would be an unwarranted nerf for raid dps.

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Q u o t e:

Deadly Throw buff - For everyone that DIDN'T rely on pure luck skills (like me) this is good to hear.

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Its great you rely on your skills instead of luck. Nice 5v5 rating btw, 1411. Impressive...

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Q u o t e:

There could have been other changes, but this is ok I think.

And Vaneras, don't you ever get tired of whining people? :)

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Fortunately there are people who complain when we get the shaft instead of so called buffs. You expect us to be grateful for nerfs?

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Q u o t e:
Here is a small list of changes to the Rogue class that are expected to be implemented in the next content patch:

• Shadowstep (Subtlety) can now be used at any time, not only while stealthed. Threat caused by next Ambush, Garrote or Backstab is reduced by 50%. Cooldown increased to 40 seconds.


• Blind is now a physical (no longer a poison) attack. Reagent requirement removed. Now shares the same diminish category as Cyclone and is now diminshed in PvE as well as PvP.


• Fleet Footed (Assassination) now increases movement speed by 8/15%. (doesn’t stack)


• All poisons will now enchant the weapon for 1 hour, increased from 30 minutes.


• Ruthlessness now only affects melee finishing moves.


• Rogue's Deadly Throw missile speed increased significantly and snare duration increased slightly.

---

Just to clarify, does that mean that BoP makes paladins immune to blind since 2.3?

(These comments from a PvP orientated 41/20/0 rogue)

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Q u o t e:

• Shadowstep (Subtlety) can now be used at any time, not only while stealthed. Threat caused by next Ambush, Garrote or Backstab is reduced by 50%. Cooldown increased to 40 seconds.

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This is such a useless change it makes me wonder if you ever actually play this game.

1) 41 sub gives up SO MUCH for pvp no-one ever specs it. Mutilate, Fleet Footed, Cold Blood, Quick Recovery, Adrenaline Rush, Nerves of Steel, Surprise Attacks, Weapon Spec, Combat Potency. You have to take precision because we get no +hit, you have to take imp. backstab to get anything from shadowstep. GJ locking pvp shadowstep to something like 8/12/41, and with no leth your backstabs will suck just a little bit.

2) 41 sub does NO appreciable threat in PvE so the -threat part is just baffling to the extreme.

3) The only thing you got right was the 40s CD if it was to be used at any time.

This does not solve the mobility problem that ALL rogues have. The fleetfooted change is very nice, but if i'm hamstrung, i'm still not going to reach my target, ever. Why do warriors, who wear plate, get to charge across the arena, up vertical walls, round corners with a spell they bought at a trainer every 30/25/20/15s depending on spec/gear, while ignoring snares? We don't even come close to that.

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Q u o t e:

• Blind is now a physical (no longer a poison) attack. Reagent requirement removed. Now shares the same diminish category as Cyclone and is now diminshed in PvE as well as PvP.

---

Is fantastic. Unless it means I can no longer blind through BoP, and then i'd have mixed feelings, but still feel it was a positive change.

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Q u o t e:

• # Fleet Footed (Assassination) now increases movement speed by 8/15%. (doesn’t stack)

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Absolutely fantastic, but we still need to be less vulnerable to snares.

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Q u o t e:

• # All poisons will now enchant the weapon for 1 hour, increased from 30 minutes.

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A decent change, makes it slightly cheaper.

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Q u o t e:

• # Ruthlessness now only affects melee finishing moves.



• Rogue's Deadly Throw missile speed increased significantly and snare duration increased slightly.

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Something was needed to stop the DT spam, which could get a little ridiculous at times, but I'd like to know exactly which moves no longer give ruthlessness procs so I can judge if the 1pt SnDs I use when it procs will still be viable, or if I should get another talent. It also means druids can now escape much easier, they were the only class that chain DT slowing really helped with imo.

The DT nerf does not help us with our movement problems in 5vs5..

What they should do with DT is to make it not use combo points, make it just a way to get up to players if they caught you out of stealth or got out of your snares, also spell interrupt ofc and make with a 4-6 sec cd. Saw this in a thread by a mage and that's all that I want(and prob more then me).

As in the good ol' DT but doesn't use combo points and has a 4-6 sec cd.

Shadowstep is still crap, 40 sec cd? that's way too much and where is the cp regen issue fix for shadowstep rogues? I'd deal with 40 sec cd if shadowstep added another cp on your next ambush/garrote/backstab and the buff lasted alot longer.
And instead of making it reduce threat why not just buff sleight of hand to reduce your threat by 10% instead of a useless -25% threat on feint.

I am loving the blind change, guess the cyclone dr was a must with it.

Fleet footed is a godsend! So happy that I went from 5/33/23 to mutilate.

And the poison change is nice for long arena queues and pve.


But where is the sprint change? The high rated rogues won't spec subtlety just because of a small shadowstep buff cause it lacks all dmg.

Where is the mechanical poison to make mutilate a more viable raiding spec? :<

Subtlety/Assassination really suffers from resilience which is also why no one will spec shadowstep, make attack with shadowstep/cold blood maybe ignore resilience, that would also justify the 40 sec cd on shadowstep.

There is probably more I could mention but I don't remember anything as I write this but I really hope this is one of those moments where they realise it wasn't enough like they did with the survival tree with hunters when I was playing mine(always been a rogue lover on the ptr until I decided to roll one) when the agility % talent was only 5% and they buffed it to 15%, I really do hope this is one of those moments.

Also give us better scaling finishers with weapons and a useful envenom, there is no way to burst a warrior down while they can do that to us while they laugh at the rupture dmg while we try to kite them, even second wind outheals rupture.
Envenom suggestion by top players: make it usable with wound poison.

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Q u o t e:
Here is a small list of changes to the Rogue class that are expected to be implemented in the next content patch:

• Shadowstep (Subtlety) can now be used at any time, not only while stealthed. Threat caused by next Ambush, Garrote or Backstab is reduced by 50%. Cooldown increased to 40 seconds.


• Blind is now a physical (no longer a poison) attack. Reagent requirement removed. Now shares the same diminish category as Cyclone and is now diminshed in PvE as well as PvP.


• Fleet Footed (Assassination) now increases movement speed by 8/15%. (doesn’t stack)


• All poisons will now enchant the weapon for 1 hour, increased from 30 minutes.


• Ruthlessness now only affects melee finishing moves.


• Rogue's Deadly Throw missile speed increased significantly and snare duration increased slightly.

---

Hi there I would just like to express my thoughts.

1.
Shadowstep Buff, while yes it might be nice to be able to sstep out of stealth, it does not help the issue that majority of the time we end up in front of the target or the target has moved due to lactency difference. Having threat lowered is a bit useless to be honest due to the sub build not being used in a pve environment as far as raiding goes & I have yet to party with sstep rogue in dungeons. I still think adding a snare mechanic would be more usefull to this talent.

2.
Thank you for the blind buff, yes it is something that we have waited for.

3.
Mobility in arena & pve environments has been one of the major factors of us being a bit under par with other classes, it is incredibly easy to get kited these days. I would have preffered a passive speed increase rather than have to destroy a talent build just to move around.

4.
Poisons, this is great news. Thank you.

5.
Not sure what to make of this one as yet. SnD is considered a finishing move however, would this not affect current white dmg, ss, mutilate, backstab, & ambush? would it not decrease the amount of combat points generated?

6.
This is great. Thank you.


My issues at present.

1.
I really hate looking like a hoping bunny in stealth mode.

2.
Vanish although explained to be a latency bug, should really have a 2 second immunity.

Thanks

Vaneras, could you clarify if any changes to sprint are planned for 2.3 (you dont have specify exactly what). This is because im pretty sure that Sprint was the #1 concern for rogues for the last few months, since the ability sums up the state of our mobility.

I was thinking that the (good) deadly throw nerf served to allow for a sprint buff without overpowering rogues.

so many rogues have been wanting to see a change to sprint, why hasnt this happened?

when will you get that a plate class( warrior) shouldnt be more agile and mobile compared to a leather class( rogue). Sprint should be on a 1min duration and remove snares, untalented, and the talented should lower sprint cd furthermore.

---

Q u o t e:
Here is a small list of changes to the Rogue class that are expected to be implemented in the next content patch:

• Shadowstep (Subtlety) can now be used at any time, not only while stealthed. Threat caused by next Ambush, Garrote or Backstab is reduced by 50%. Cooldown increased to 40 seconds.


• Blind is now a physical (no longer a poison) attack. Reagent requirement removed. Now shares the same diminish category as Cyclone and is now diminshed in PvE as well as PvP.


• Fleet Footed (Assassination) now increases movement speed by 8/15%. (doesn’t stack)


• All poisons will now enchant the weapon for 1 hour, increased from 30 minutes.


• Ruthlessness now only affects melee finishing moves.


• Rogue's Deadly Throw missile speed increased significantly and snare duration increased slightly.

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You call this buffing us get a god damn clue ppl or just quit your jobs you allready made millions give jobs to ppl how acually know what they are doing becouse you fail.For the last 5 damn patches each and everyone one of them there was a nerf and this wont change with2.3,sure sub is viable PVP spec now but nerfing DT it´s kite time again.It´s not like we dont have problems with it but no let´s give rogues no chance to get to some targets.

You cast Blind.
Ultrapewpewaxeswinger parry's.
You die.

:)

rest is ok

These changes are SH!T!

Seriously.

All the time we people has put into suggestions and class reviews is just getting ignored, and now they piss all over us with an overall NERF to our mobility?

This better be a joke or you can kiss my 15$ a month goodbye.