++++++ FOR 3.02 INFO, PLEASE REFER TO FURYTERRA's FAQ THREAD +++++
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=6104911962&sid=1
++++++ FOR 3.02 INFO, PLEASE REFER TO FURYTERRA's FAQ THREAD +++++



First of all: This is actual as of patch 2.4. It is intended for new people & PvE, meaning (solo) levelling and your first raids. I don’t care much for PvP, so at best there’ll be the odd footnote about it (if at all). I don’t believe in giving options in a guide. There’s a single best way to do stuff, and you deviate from it at your own “risk”. I will also not give reasons, math or theorycraft behind the pointers. They’re backed by Weapon, Energy, Attack and Damage theorycraft as well as experience (that means doing it wrong and knowing it better the second time around) of a lot of rogues, not only my own – if you can think of it, we’ve been there & done it wrong before you even thought of buying the game.

I just needed something I can cut & paste into the dozens of “help my plx” threads to waste less time being productive, and have more time so spam. Profit from it or not. If you do follow it more or less, make sure you follow the underlined parts.

I don’t care for sticky, so I won’t be ‘cleaning this up’ or making it more polite. I will however edit according to feedback if I am corrected, or some important part is brought up that I forgot.

Part 0 – Rogue Rule #1: Don't stand in green shit!

It doesn't matter whether it's green, or yellow, or red;
if it's evil looking clouds, the ground burning, a globe blowing up, or the weapontrace of a whirlwind
if you can see it, don't stand in it;
if you can anticipate it, move away.

Part I – Levelling Build and Gear

About your general gear: you want Agility and Stamina on it. That will give you the secondary stats Hit Points (so you don’t die), Attack Power & Critrate (So the other dies faster). You can also get AP directly though AP on gear (good but rare at low levels) and Strength (not so good, as you don’t get a lot of AP from it). For random “Greens of the XXX” that means “…of the Monkey”, “…of the Tiger” or “…of the Bandit” gear.
Hit Rating is also good, but you won’t find any on low level gear.

Blues are generally better than Greens and will last you a few levels, possibly as much as 10 – if you have an easy way to get them, do. That means for example if you can’t easily get Cruel Barb from Deadmines, take an afternoon of & sit through a couple of WSG matches to get the PvP level 18 sword. For items, search on http://www.wowhead.com on where & when to get them.

Weapons you should get:
~ 18: Cruel Barb or level 18 WSG sword
- High 20ies: The Butcher, Zealot Blade, Level 28 WSG Sword – if absolutely not doable: Jade Serpentblade in early 30ies
~ 40: Vanquisher Sword + Sword of Omen / Sword of Serenity
~ 48: Thrash Blade
~ 58: Head to Outlands and find something there, it’s better than whatever you’ll have

Q: Why not daggers?
A: Because daggers are annoying & slow at low level, and the non-daggers are better & more accessible



Here’s your build at level: (self-evident completion as far as I can see)
11: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZM
22: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fGf0oZM
31: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fGf0oZG0xz
39: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fGf0oZG0Ez0c
At 40 you respec to: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZG0Ez0Vzx0ho
51: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fGf0oZG0Ez0Vzx0ho
59: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fGe0oxZG0Ez0Vzx0ho
After that, pick up two of the 2-point toys (improved Sprint, Endurance, improved Kick) if you haven’t already (might have imp. Sprint already to break out of roots), then 5/5 Combat Potency, than 1/1 Surprise Attacks. Grats, you’re level 69 – get your last level, and we’re changing topics.

Q: Why not imp. Slice & Dice, I heard it’s great?
A: It is if you’re raiding. Not that good for levelling.

Q: Why Remorseless / imp. Evis., I heard they’re crap?
A: They are, unless you’re levelling.

Q: Why not Subtlety?
A: Because I don’t give options.

Part II – Instances & Early Raiding Builds

For all builds there is one rule in combat: KEEP SLICE AND DICE UP.
It's a selfbuff that makes you do 15% more damage; there is no possible way to do decent DPS without Slice & Dice. Start it early (after the first Combo Point), and keep it going.

Combat Mutilate (41/20) - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efovMoikVohfV0bV (updated for Puncturing Wounds)
MH: slow dagger (around 1.8+)
OH: dps is more important than speed
Cycle: Unpredictable. Keep Find Weakness up. You will use a lot of 3-4 point finishers.
Option: Vile Poisons vs. Improved Poisons DPS depends among other things on the speed of your daggers. Generally, vile poisons is considered more useful, although the single strongest poison point is 1/2 Master Poisoner.

Mostly raiding/heroics: Combat Swords (20/41) - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebovZMIVobVzxMGot
MH: slow sword (2.6+ speed)
OH: the faster the better (1.5- speed)
Normal Cycle: 2-3pt SnD, 5pt Rupture.
2 Tier 4 Cycle: 1pt SnD, 5pt Rupture.
Option: If you're mostly questing/instancing, Combat Swords (19/42) - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eboeZGcEz0VzxMhot is a more defensive variant of the above build, that will still deal decent damage, but make you more resilient against damage, reducing downtime or allowing you to take some weight off a tank in instances.

Q: Where should i be standing?
A: If possible, behind the mob.
Standing in front will make you lose damage via parry & block, and kill your tank faster (due to a mob getting his swing timer reset & instantly attacking the tank again if he parries you).

Q: Why no combat/daggers, I heard it’s THE top build?
A: It sucks for 5-man instances, questing, and isn’t all that good in Kara either.

Q: What if Slice & Dice AND Rupture are running?
A: Then you can dump the points into Evis (or Envenom for 41/20 builds).

Q; Which poisons?
A: Deadly offhand, Windfury-totem (NO poison) mainhand.
If you cannot get a windfury totem: instant poison mainhand.
(For 41/20 dual deadly for lots of tries to break your envenom e-peen record)

Q: What’s an e-peen?
A: Either your highest crit or your least misses in the course of a raid. The bigger your e-peen the better your DPS and the better endowed you are IRL, and girls will want hot sex with you.

Q: Really?
A: No.

Part III – Early 70 Gear

1) May I point you at this thread by Mistopheles: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=291769993&sid=1
2) You can also check out http://www.shadowpanther.net which assigns (Agility Equivalence) points to gear depending on their total stats. AEP values stamina highly, DAEP/MAEP value it less and go more for DPS. If you die a lot, pick AEP, if you don’t, pick your gear from the higher DPS lists.

Here's what your unbuffed stats should be for 25 man raids:

Stats:        MIN  ||  Suggested

Hit rating:   175  ||  220

Crit:         20%  ||  22.5%

AP:          1450  ||  1600

HP:           7500 ||  8250  

Those stats are doable with Quest rewards and some items from normal instances. With Kara & Heroic Gear, they can easily be surpassed. Not meeting them will make some rogue talents work badly with each other, or make it hard to keep you alive; making you not contribute a lot, or worse: a liability . Note that Crit-% is not your top priority, unless you are Mutilate/combat, in which case it should be >25% minimum.

If a group will take you even though you don’t meet them, go ahead anyway; no point passing on a run out of misplaced pride.

Gladiator's Weapons (Season 2) are the absolute minimum you should have.
If you have two of them, we’re allowed to mock & taunt you, but you will escape being flamed for incompetence by me, that’s something. Your offhand is Latro’s Shifting Sword, Quickening Blade of the Prince or the Merciless Gladiator’s Quickblade, whichever you can get faster.

What you SHOULD have is something better:
More to the point, unless you're in a top raiding guild, and have a decent shot at Warglaives or the Blade of Infamy & Blade of Savagery combo, you want the new Badge Weapons that came out with the SSO patch. While swordspec outdoes Fist-spec by a small bit, it's very hard to argue against 103 DPS weapons, when you don't have a realistic shot at anything comparable otherwise. Obviously pick the Fists for combat, but the Daggers if you're Mutilate.

Part IV – Other things to know & take care of

Buffs:

For a Rogue, the top Buffs (excluding raidwide debuffs on the boss) are:
1: Blessing of Salvation
2: Battle Shout (warrior)
3: Windfury (shaman)
4: Unleashed Rage (shaman)
5: Blessing of Might (paladin)
6: GoA Totem (shaman)
7: Leader of the Pack (feral druid)
8: Blessing of Kings (paladin)
9: Trueshot Aura (hunter)

You will get them depending on which group you are placed in, and who else is present. If you're in a group supposed to provide a buff and you're not getting it, gently prod your buffer to do his duty. "WTFBBQ Battleshout me, you muppet!" is a perfectly acceptable reminder.

Your Top-DPS group (supposing 2 rogues in the raid) is: Warrior, Shaman, Feral, 2 Rogues.

Blessing of Salvation is your TOP potential DPS buff.
It increases the DPS you can do before drawing aggro & getting one-shot by ~43%. This is the first and most important buff to get, in every encounter (except the untankable ones). It's perfectly ok to run over to a pally mid-fight and request it in /rw, /ra, /y, /p, /s, /g and whatever other chat you can think of - and you're allowed to threaten him, steal his stuff, insult his heritage and question his sexuality to get it.



Consumables:

- Spicy Hot Talbuk (alternative: Warp Burger)
- Healing Potion
- Heavy Netherweave Bandage
- Flash Powder
- Poisons (Deadly, Instant, Wounding)
- Adamantite Sharpening Stones (for Poison immune bosses)
- Battle Elixir:

- Major Agility Potion (OR Fel Strength Elixir)
- OR Relentless Assault Flask (more DPS & lasts through dieing, so cheaper AND better when learning encounters)
- Unstable Flask of the Bandit at HKM/Gruul (which you get money for acquiring!)

That is the minimum you're supposed to have on you and use (!). Make sure you bring enough of them to last you through the raid.
Remember other classes have buff costs too, reagents needed, and chug mana-pots in 2-minute intervals. We're getting off cheap.

Part V - Miscellaneous Information:

1) A Dead Rogue Does 0 DPS™ – Read the tactics so you know what's going on (wowwiki.com , bosskillers.com and/or your guild Forum)
2) Your top Buff is Blessing of Salvation.
3) There is no build without Dual Wield Spec and Relentless Strikes that will do good damage. Missing either means you're wasting a raidslot.
4) Fast Offhand Weapons for Combat Builds. (1.3-1.5 speed)
5) Slow Mainhand Weapons for all Builds. (2.6+ swords, 1.8+ daggers)
6) Slice & Dice > Rupture > Eviscerate > Envenom.
7) Deadly offhand, Windfury Mainhand. If you can't get a Windfury totem, use Instant Poison for Mainhand.
8) Mongoose is overall the best enchant (yes, it's better than Executioner: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3190652927&sid=1 )
9) End of Story.

Part VI - Questions Answered (with fake questions for now):

Q: Will Vanish be fixed?
A: No.

Q: What about the Felsteel Longblade?
A: No.

Q: What about Shadowstep?
A: No.

Q: What about my special bastard build?
A: No.

Q: What about Hemo?*
A: If you have to ask, the answer is no.

Q: What about Combat/Daggers?*
A: If you have to ask, the answer is no.

Q: How do i make best use of Muti/Cbt?
A: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3545526399&sid=1

Q: Should i use keybinds?
A: Yes. http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=3642205300&sid=1

Q: How much Hit Rating do i need to be hit-capped (ie: never miss)?
A: As a non-human against skull-level bosses, with 5/5 Precision: 363

Q: How important is being hit-capped?
A: Not very. Due to how we work, as one stat rises, the others become more valuable. If you’re hit-capped, chances are you gimped your AP or Crit for it, which lowers your total DPS.
Additionally, if you're a 363 vs. bosses, it means you're over the cap for trash, wasting DPS there.
270-290 is a sensible target value.

Q: What about expertise?
A: It's a top DPS stat, get it if you can, don't go over the cap (which is 64 for non-humans with WEx).

Q: I thought you always miss 1% of your attacks, no matter what?
A: You thought wrong. Physical DPSers can easily eliminate misses against bosses.

Q: Where should I be on the Damage-meter?
A: #1

Q: Will Rogues keep getting nerfed?
A: Yes.

Q: I'm bored of Combat, can i do something else?
A: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=941264861&sid=1

Q: Who are you to set up these rules anyway?
A: They're not rules, you're welcome to ignore them.

Part VII - Questions Answered (Real ones)

Q: Why Instant Poison on MH?
A: Technically, if no Windfury totem can be had, Deadly mainhand & Instant offhand is the better answer than i gave - in the interrest of keeping with simple rules of thumb i went with "deadly offhand no matter what". The difference in DPS is marginal, and when you're at a point where that difference is something you chase after, you're past the scope of this guide anyway.
As Ordin said, 'some things change in later gameplay'.


Q: Great guide except: "'What about combat/daggers?...'
A: I see people posting what they think is combat/daggers every now and then.
Half the time those specs forget either imp. BS, Relentless or Opportunity - that means on thing: The build is not easily accessible, and as such, outside ths scope of this guide. The fact that cbt/dagger is also no good for 5-mans & Karazhan where fights aren't long enough to get into cycle is another consideration why the answer is: 'if you have to ask, the answer is no.'


Q: What is a good standard cycle on a mob?
On short fights, it's hard to get into cycle, so you'll have to wing it.
- Keeping SnD running is your first consideration. If that's running, your best finisher if it can run for the full time is Rupture. However on standard mobs (short fights) that's not always possible, so Evis/Envenom might be the better answer.
- Use Stuns (CS/KS) with consideration: if your tank is rage starved to begin with, you might not want to use them - if he says it's OK, or the healer has trouble keeping him alive, CS/KS become good openers & finishers for normal mobs.
- My own opener of choice is "SS -> SnD" most of the time, as i have the luxury of having good tanks which enables me to engage the mob as fast as i can get to it, and sneaking in to get a garotte off takes too much time for my liking.
- On longer fights, DPS cycles change and actually become something you could call 'cycle'. Keeping SnD up still is the top priority, which usually leads to cycles such as "2-3 SnD -> 5 Rupture, repeat" (aka 2s5r). With better gear (especially 2 Tier 4 bonus), this becomes 1s5r.


Q: Perhaps you could include ideal Gems/Enchants
A: Unless you have a specific deficit to cover, +4agi/+4hit.
A2: RED (that's a Relentless Earthstorm Diamond) for the metagem slot.
Note that it requires at least 2 red, 2 blue and 2 yellow gems. Orange gems (like the +4/+4 above) count as BOTH red and yellow for that, and a purple gem (like +4 Agi / +6 stamina) will count as both RED and BLUE.

Q: surefooted vs 12 agil on boots?
A: +12 Agi - it's cheaper and the difference if negligible if it's at all there, which only happens under specific conditions.
The better answer to that however is: Unless you have Fleet Footed, Cat's Swiftness > Boar's Speed > Runspeed > Agility > Surefooted. Staying mobile is more important for DPS than 6 more or less agility in most cases.

Q: Though I thought Lethality was overrated for sword builds?
A: It is. However it's still better DPS/Talent point for combat builds than the poison talent.

Q: you take deflection at low lvls, isn't it better to put those points in assassination and as soon as you can reach riposte respec to get it?
A: Relentless is too important tbh. You can use all the energy you need at low levels.

Q: Real Rogues use... ?
A: Whatever Works Best™
Having the hots for daggers doesn't interrest anyone if your DPS is subpar. Using swords when the maces are twice as good, just because you don't think maces are roguelike only proves you're not thinking straight. Whatever works best is the single correct answer to that question, anyone claiming something else does not have your highest DPS as top priority, and as such can safely be ignored.

Q: The absolute best thing you can invest money into when leveling is...?
A: First aid; get a higher level character to make you some normal runecloth bandages, level your first aid so you can use them (much lower skill req than making them) and laugh at your health going from 5% to 100% in four ticks. It is extremely cheap and fast, and it means when you are dying on a mob you can gouge/bandage to full and pawn it.
- credited to Mistopheles! :o)


*) A small note about "If you have to ask..."
Combat/Daggers, Mutilate/Combat, Trispec Hemo (11/28/22) are all viable under certain circumstances. They won't beat combat/swords for personal DPS at the moment, even if Trispec can be higher Raid-DPS at certain levels. The short version is that for now combat/swords is the best spec, but the others are a few %age points behind only, and as such you won't gimp yourself just because you chose to go combat/daggers, especially not if your daggers far out-do your swords.

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Q u o t e:
nvm me, tesing something

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I MIND U!!1

beer #4 ...hick

Got 3 in before you spammers though :P

Lovely guide since I just started my little Belf Rogue.

Thank you!

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Q u o t e:
- Poisons (Deadly, Instant, Wounding)

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Correction:

Only incompetent muppets don't carry ALL poisons at all times.

"Only incompetent muppets don't carry ALL poisons at all times."

I'd have said that, but there's anaesthetic..., and mind numbing doesn't usually work in PvE when it's important.

why Instant Poison on MH?

If you're straight nuking a boss with SnD up at all times, you actually get more attacks with your off hand.. therefor instant becomes better than deadly for off hand (this is assuming no WF, so Deadly goes on MH) - This is assuming you don't get **!@ luck.. which you can.. but in a perfect world Deadly MH - Instant OH

The good thing about deadly OH is that if you're about to lose the stack of deadly through bad luck or have just ran back to the boss after doing something else, (ground slam on Gruul comes to mind) you can just throw a shiv on and you're back in business :p

Depends on how much faith you have with the rogue gods.. :)

Hate to be an arse and say something that disagree's with ya Queenie.. but still, zomgwtfbbqimba guide :-)

Good guide for beginners just starting to raid.

Some things change however at later gameplay, but generally those that reach these instances will have started to understand a thing or 2 by themselves. Or, they have really good guildmates.

Gotta throw away that pile of Anastethic I made when TBC was released. There are still 19 poisons in the pile... Anyone want some? I have a 18-slotter for poison only myself.

The only real PvE use I found for Mindnumbing is the trash casters in Gruuls Lair and the Channelers at Magtheridon. If you have a rogue in the raid who likes to PvP, let him bring the mindnumb to slow the heals on these mobs. Though you can kick em properly without mindnumb on them anyway, mindnumb makes it a little easier to do.

Pfft - Make the locks us CoT, there should be enough of them anyways for the infernals.. f*cking locks.

Thank you for this Guide.
I am leveling a Rogue, just hit 20 with it but I only started today. I just have a question, now that I find myself getting more and more finishing moves what is a good standard cycle on a mob?
I tend to garrote --> SnD --> SS x 3 Then if the mob isnt dead Evis. Should I perhaps be using rupture or? I kill a mob very quickly but even so Im wondering if that is a good cycle.
Cheers for the help.

Great guide except:

'What about combat/daggers?
If you have to ask, the answer is no.'

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Q u o t e:
Thank you for this Guide.
I am leveling a Rogue, just hit 20 with it but I only started today. I just have a question, now that I find myself getting more and more finishing moves what is a good standard cycle on a mob?
I tend to garrote --> SnD --> SS x 3 Then if the mob isnt dead Evis. Should I perhaps be using rupture or? I kill a mob very quickly but even so Im wondering if that is a good cycle.
Cheers for the help.

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To be honest mate using that is absolutely fine tbh By the time you have got the 3 SS back up they should be nearly dead any ways :).

But your doing good, Wen ya fighting harder bosses you can always pop in a rupture, dpending on how hard the mob is, depends how many combo points to waste on it, with grinding maybe only 1 or 2 combo points for the rupture.

Any ways good luck and enjoy playing ya rogue :)

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Q u o t e:
Great guide except:

'What about combat/daggers?
If you have to ask, the answer is no.'

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How many raiding rogues do you know that actually use daggers any more? i only know of a few,
Reason being is that as a dagger rogue you are all specced for high damage through backstabs.

Its just so much more efficient to be Combat/Swords as you have Imp SnD, Imp SS.
Any ways it seems Blizzard are liking Combat Swords spec rogues atm, as they are sure giving us plenty of choice of swords to get :).

But btw nice guide especially for new people starting as a rogue. Good job

Nice little guide Assassinette. I've been linking it to those new kids all day. :D